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Беслан. Помни / Beslan. Remember (english & español subs)

Беслан. Помни / Beslan. Remember (english & español subs)


Hey everyone! We’re in North Ossetia, a small republic in the southern
part of Russia. Fifteen years ago, this place faced the deadliest terrorist
attack in our country’s history. On September 1, in the middle
of a celebration assembly, terrorists occupied School Number One
of the town of Beslan. Over a thousand people
were taken hostage. [1128 hostages]
Over a thousand people
were taken hostage. [1128 hostages]
They spent three days
without food or water [3 days of captivity]
They spent three days
without food or water [3 days of captivity]
in a stuffy, crammed,
explosives-filled gym. When state forces
stormed the school, most hostages were saved, but 334 people were killed. [334 deaths]
but 334 people were killed. [334 deaths]
186 of them were children. [334 deaths, including 186 children]
186 of them were children. [334 deaths, including 186 children] [334 deaths, including 186 children]
There are lots of videos
about Beslan, but that’s no reason to not
bring this tragedy up again. When you investigate
the circumstances of this crisis, you want to scream and cry from the horror, anger,
compassion, and pain. In this film,
we’ll show you the people who continue to live
normal lives despite the heavy blow
they’ve suffered. We’ll show you that Beslan
is not just an atrocity from 2004, but also incredibly resilient people
who have been fighting heroically for their health and happiness
for the last 15 years. And in general, the louder and more often
we remind people about Beslan, the better. Our reasoning is: in the past, the state made
mistakes that led to a tragedy. Now, the state has to give as much care
as possible to those who suffered. Only through this care,
it may earn people’s forgiveness, and later, their trust. Does the state do everything it can
to earn this forgiveness? Does the state do everything it can
to earn this trust? Or maybe some people are
too embarrassed of this subject and are trying their best to never,
ever talk about it. These are the things
we wanted to find out. Everything we learned,
we’re sharing with you. [Graffiti:]
[Brother, we remember]
[Prohladniy (town 100 km from Beslan),
[23.03.2013 Grieving, loving, remembering]
[Tskhinval (town 175 km from Beslan) – Beslan ]
[Death to scum like them]
[In our prayers]
[Children of Beslan, forgive us, we couldn’t help when…]
[Entire world grieves]
[We grieve deeply, Beslan]
[Besik, we will never forget]
[Eternal memory, eternal life] [BESLAN] We went separately, but when I entered
the gym… [Diana Murtazova]
[14 years old at the time of the crisis]
but when I entered
the gym… [Diana Murtazova]
[14 years old at the time of the crisis]
There was a small hallway
and then the changing rooms. Entering this small hallway, I saw mom in the changing room
with Madina and Vika [Madina, Diana, and Vika are sisters.]
[All three were among the hostages]
– So you joined them?
– Yes. [Madina, Diana, and Vika are sisters.]
[All three were among the hostages] [Madina, Diana, and Vika are sisters.]
[All three were among the hostages]
The four of us entered
the gym together. [Madina, Diana, and Vika are sisters.]
[All three were among the hostages] Did you have to come up
with any tricks to keep the little ones,
Madina in particular, she was in first year, to keep her calm? Madina is pretty calm
herself. On the first night,
she was worried about her dog back at home. This was her biggest tragedy
on the first night: that her doggie
was alone. – So…
– What was it? The breed. Breed? It was a mongrel. – This little pup.
– From the street? Yes. My mom’s head was red
at the time. Or chestnut. – My mom.
– You mean hair? Yeah, she dyed
her hair chestnut. At one point, I saw a woman
with the same hair color. [Stas Bokoev]
[14 years old at the time of the crisis]
At one point, I saw a woman
with the same hair color. [Stas Bokoev]
[14 years old at the time of the crisis] [Stas Bokoev]
[14 years old at the time of the crisis]
For a second,
I thought it was my mom. For a second,
I thought it was my mom. In that moment, I almost lost my mind. But then, you know, I came to and went,
“No, that’s not her.” That was the most horrifying
moment for me. What did you ask,
Fatia? Why didn’t you write your wife’s
name on your leg? [Fatima Dzgoeva]
[10 years old at the time of the crisis]
Why didn’t you write your wife’s
name on your leg? [Fatima Dzgoeva]
[10 years old at the time of the crisis]
– (Lana) Your wife’s name.
– (Fatima) On your leg. [Fatima Dzgoeva]
[10 years old at the time of the crisis]
Why didn’t I write it? Why didn’t I write it? – Yes!
– You know… We had a deal. We had a deal that if we
stay together for 25 years, we’ll get ring tattoos
instead of real ones. – We’ll get tattoos.
– Oh wow! Ask him how many years
they got left until 25? How many years left? [Lana]
[Fatima’s aunt]
Not that many, actually. [Lana]
[Fatima’s aunt]
Perforating skull injury. [Lana]
[Fatima’s aunt]
Right hemisphere damage. Right hemisphere damage. There was basically just some skin
left on her forehead. – So there was no bone?
– There was almost no bone. No. That’s why they put
in this titanium plate. [Fatima lives with her brother and her parents,]
[Alik and Zhanna. Lana has her own family,]
[but helps take care of Fatima every day.]
They warned me
from the start: [Fatima lives with her brother and her parents,]
[Alik and Zhanna. Lana has her own family,]
[but helps take care of Fatima every day.]
“Do you realize the kind of pressure
she’ll be exposed to on a plane?” [Fatima lives with her brother and her parents,]
[Alik and Zhanna. Lana has her own family,]
[but helps take care of Fatima every day.]
There’s no bone. It’s all wobbling around. I told them: “What difference
does it make “if she passes up there
or on the ground? “Maybe there’s a chance? “We might get her there.
What if? “Sure, it’s gonna be
a miracle if we do.” [Fatima and Lana]
[Flew to Germany for medical help]
We covered it up.
She wore a little cap. [Fatima and Lana]
[Flew to Germany for medical help]
Even this cap was
too much pressure. [Fatima and Lana]
[Flew to Germany for medical help]
When we were in the air, it was probably
the elevated pressure, ’cause it started rolling out. I put it back in and held it so people
wouldn’t stare at us. The cap kept cutting
into her. But we got there.
That was quite the adventure. I can’t even recall
what I was thinking the whole trip. I remember thinking
at some point: “What if I made
a huge mistake? “What if she doesn’t survive
the flight?” Somehow… We made it.
We got her there. They re-assembled her skull. This made her really happy. She said, “I’m gonna have
the prettiest forehead now!” And she kept doing this. These were her first words. [*”How are you doing?” (German)]
They went,
“Fatima, wie geht’s?*” She says,
“What do I tell them?” I said, “Tell them you’re
better than anyone.” This became her catchphrase. “Fatia, how are you?”
“Better than anyone. You’ll see.” Stas Bokoev. – He was same year as you.
– Yeah. When we were sitting
in the gym, third day, Stas was sitting behind me. I always knew… Because my mom
works as a nurse, I knew that Stas
had health issues. This was the third day
of sitting. It was such a pain to sit.
You wanted to lie down a bit. But there was no room. I looked around:
a child was sitting in front of me; our then librarian
was to my right. She was elderly. To my right,
either Madina or Vika. And Stas behind me. Eventually, I got my
nerve together and asked him. I said,
“Stas, can I rest on you for a bit?” For some reason,
I thought he’d say no. He said,
“Okay. But not too long.” And then I rested on him
for five or ten minutes. It was such a relief. But my conscience
didn’t let me lie any longer, so I sat back up. Why was that?
‘Cause everyone was tired? Doing anything
was exhausting. – Even if someone just leaned on you?
– Without water too… Yes. Even clothes felt heavy. Yeah. This episode. Did his new passion
surprise you? Yes. I like his lyrics. They’re interesting. That’s Bob. Yes, I totally love his songs and the message he brought
into this our world. What message did he bring? Love. Peace. Kindness. Your first album is reggae
and reggae-related. [Indi, “First One”]
Your first album is reggae
and reggae-related. [Indi, “First One”]
I understand your grew up
with this music? [Indi, “First One”]
The music I grew up with
is on this T-shirt. The music I grew up with
is on this T-shirt. Yeah. I have a book
about them too. They sent it to me
from England. Big tome. My dad got me hooked
when I was six. I remember the day. He brought a new
tape recorder. He traveled a lot. He brought
a Sony recorder… Remember the ones
with lots of colors? And a bunch of tapes. They were Deep Purple, Uriah Heep,
Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin… I remember I put in
this green tape with four dudes wearing
these long things. I put it in, and Stairway to Heaven
started playing. I started listening… See? Instant goosebumps.
You know it’s true. For real! I put it in. Jimmy Page’s
solo totally floored me. I said,
“Dad, what’s that?” He said, “This is forever.”
And he was right. – “This is forever?”
– Yeah. He said, “This is forever.” I remember that when I came back
to Beslan, she was the worst
case at the time. She had some complications
or something that made her worse. This is my earliest
memory of Fatia. The pictures from
the emergency room. And then we met
in person. When you… Maybe you had this too? You don’t expect her
to be the way she is. Fatia comes to your place and immediately starts
joshing everyone. “Hey, you’re fat!
And you, enough sitting!” – “Why are you this or that?”
– She meant you? Yeah! She comes up
to you and goes: “Diana, get up! “Diana, let’s go! Diana!” That’s her. And it’s so cute
and so sweet. She’s really nice
to be around. This is our trip to Baykal. What’s that? – You know what Baykal is?
– No. It’s a lake in Siberia. – Hey, that’s you!
– Yeah, that’s me. – It’s a lake in Siberia.
– Oh. Our whole team
went there together. It’s really beautiful. – I always wanted to go there.
– Really beautiful. But it’s really cold.
Really cold. And mosquitoes
were this big! Mosquitoes
were this big?! – Yeah.
– Mosquitoes this big! They almost ate him. – (Fatima) They almost ate him?
– (Dud’) ‘Cause he’s the biggest of us
and the tastiest too. They weren’t mosquitoes.
They were ants. With wings. – For real?
– They were this big… They were
these huge ants! Yeah. I didn’t know that, so… – Let me show you…
– I like your wedding ring. Yeah? You know that one of us is
choosing a wedding ring too? – Yeah, he does.
– Yep! He’s looking
for a wedding ring. Yura, what was that gesture? – Me?
– Yes. – It’s “the goat.”
– “The goat?” They show the goat
on rock concerts. – You ever listened to rock’n’roll?
– I have. – You have?
– Yes. Well, it’s a signature gesture
on rock concerts. I forget, what’s his name? – Serioga.
– Serioga. Serioga, so you’re
getting married soon? He’s getting married soon. Do you think
it makes him happy? Of course.
Look at his face. Look at his face. This was her first coma
right after the injury. Then at the one year anniversary,
we had purulent meningoencephalitis. Severe form. The girl went into a coma. She returned to life…
basically a vegetable. After this coma, she…
We had to re-learn everything. Like a newborn baby,
you know? We started with the baby bottle.
Chewing. Swallowing. What age was that? – She was ten.
– Ten, huh.
– Yes. We held her. We… [Today, Fatima is 25]
We held her. We… [Today, Fatima is 25]
We held her, fed her. We held her, fed her. She didn’t eat at first. We used a tube.
It took ages. It was horrible. Just horrible.
Even thinking about it. But little by little, we started coming
back to life. [How was the hostage]
[capture possible?] How many times did you visit
Beslan in these 15 years? For several years,
I went Beslan every two weeks. [Yelena Milashina]
[Novaya Gazeta journalist]
[Has been writing about the Beslan crisis for 15 years]
For several years,
I went Beslan every two weeks. [Yelena Milashina]
[Novaya Gazeta journalist]
[Has been writing about the Beslan crisis for 15 years]
We had a press office over there,
and I basically lived in it. [Yelena Milashina]
[Novaya Gazeta journalist]
[Has been writing about the Beslan crisis for 15 years]
At some point, I added up
the time I spent there. At some point, I added up
the time I spent there. It was over
two years in total. The Beslan…
Duration-wise, the Beslan investigation is by far
Novaya Gazeta’s longest investigation. Why? You see… Because it is the greatest tragedy
in Russian history. You couldn’t just leave it be. I couldn’t. I came back
from there traumatized. Then Muratov said we’re coming back
and opening a press office. [Dmitriy Muratov, publisher and head]
[of the editorial board of Novaya Gazeta.]
[Was the paper’s editor-in-chief from 1995 until 2017]
Then Muratov said we’re coming back
and opening a press office. [Dmitriy Muratov, publisher and head]
[of the editorial board of Novaya Gazeta.]
[Was the paper’s editor-in-chief from 1995 until 2017]
All of Novaya Gazeta’s
journalists were in that office. [Dmitriy Muratov, publisher and head]
[of the editorial board of Novaya Gazeta.]
[Was the paper’s editor-in-chief from 1995 until 2017]
Even the culture and sports
departments. [Dmitriy Muratov, publisher and head]
[of the editorial board of Novaya Gazeta.]
[Was the paper’s editor-in-chief from 1995 until 2017]
Everyone would go there. And everyone
would bring information. Everybody pooled
their efforts to… We were walking
through a dark tunnel. We didn’t know anything. There was only the government’s version,
which we always found odd. And we never trusted it, ’cause we knew that the government
was lying about some key points. Not knowing anything yet, but not trusting
the official version either, we slowly walked through
this tunnel towards the light and little by little pieced
the big picture together, like a puzzle, until we assembled
enough pieces, and now we know
what happened in Beslan, what led to Beslan, and what happened
after Beslan. – This crisis was staged by Shamil Basaev.
– Yes. What was he trying
to achieve? [Shamil Basaev (1965-2006)]
[One of the leaders of Chechen terrorists]
What was he trying
to achieve? [Shamil Basaev (1965-2006)]
[One of the leaders of Chechen terrorists]
Basaev wanted an Ossetian-Ingush conflict. [Shamil Basaev (1965-2006)]
[One of the leaders of Chechen terrorists]
In 1992, [Shamil Basaev (1965-2006)]
[One of the leaders of Chechen terrorists]
we had… [The Ossetian-Ingush Conflict was an ethnopolitical conflict]
[in the Prigorodniy District of North Ossetia that led to armed]
[confrontations from October 31 to November 4, 1992,]
[and large casualties among Ossetian and Ingush citizens.]
[Total casualties: up to 600 killed, over 900 injured]
Republic of Ossetia
and Republic of Ingushetia [The Ossetian-Ingush Conflict was an ethnopolitical conflict]
[in the Prigorodniy District of North Ossetia that led to armed]
[confrontations from October 31 to November 4, 1992,]
[and large casualties among Ossetian and Ingush citizens.]
[Total casualties: up to 600 killed, over 900 injured]
were actually in an armed conflict
between themselves. [The Ossetian-Ingush Conflict was an ethnopolitical conflict]
[in the Prigorodniy District of North Ossetia that led to armed]
[confrontations from October 31 to November 4, 1992,]
[and large casualties among Ossetian and Ingush citizens.]
[Total casualties: up to 600 killed, over 900 injured]
A very complicated conflict
with lots of casualties. [The Ossetian-Ingush Conflict was an ethnopolitical conflict]
[in the Prigorodniy District of North Ossetia that led to armed]
[confrontations from October 31 to November 4, 1992,]
[and large casualties among Ossetian and Ingush citizens.]
[Total casualties: up to 600 killed, over 900 injured]
To this day, it’s not fully
researched or understood. [The Ossetian-Ingush Conflict was an ethnopolitical conflict]
[in the Prigorodniy District of North Ossetia that led to armed]
[confrontations from October 31 to November 4, 1992,]
[and large casualties among Ossetian and Ingush citizens.]
[Total casualties: up to 600 killed, over 900 injured]
And still very sensitive. Basaev wanted to revive it to instigate instability. – Another hotbed of discord.
– That’s right. Yes. But how he came up
with this particular solution, is a question we have to ask
North Ossetian security agencies. [*Hereinafter OCD]
Particularly, the Organized Crime
Department* that planted a mole
into Basaev’s team, Hodov, an Ossetian. [Vladimir Hodov was one of the leaders]
[of the terrorists that occupied the school in Beslan.]
[Hostages described him as especially cruel]
Hodov, an Ossetian. [Vladimir Hodov was one of the leaders]
[of the terrorists that occupied the school in Beslan.]
[Hostages described him as especially cruel]
Basaev converted him. [Vladimir Hodov was one of the leaders]
[of the terrorists that occupied the school in Beslan.]
[Hostages described him as especially cruel]
They sent Hodov in to draw
Basaev’s gang out [Vladimir Hodov was one of the leaders]
[of the terrorists that occupied the school in Beslan.]
[Hostages described him as especially cruel]
and capture them. But these games
with a terrorist, these secret agent games led to Basaev
outplaying everyone. – Thus, Hodov ended up in the school.
– Yes. And hostages described him as
one of the most cruel terrorists. Yes. He was an Ossetian. He was there. How much time did you spend in Beslan
in the last 15 years in total? Tens of trips. I went there every year. [Olga Allenova]
[Kommersant journalist]
[Wrote about the school crisis since day one.]
[Published a book about Beslan in 2019]
I went there every year. [Olga Allenova]
[Kommersant journalist]
[Wrote about the school crisis since day one.]
[Published a book about Beslan in 2019]
Until 2010, I went there
about three times a year. In 2005 in particular,
I spent a lot of time there. I think I barely
left the place. After 2010, I started going less often. How did the terrorists
manage to drive there? How could a truck full of terrorists
stay unnoticed by anyone? [The official version is that all terrorists with their]
[weapons managed to fit in a single GAZ-66]
[truck and a car they stole on the way]
How could a truck full of terrorists
stay unnoticed by anyone? [The official version is that all terrorists with their]
[weapons managed to fit in a single GAZ-66]
[truck and a car they stole on the way] [The official version is that all terrorists with their]
[weapons managed to fit in a single GAZ-66]
[truck and a car they stole on the way]
When were driving to Beslan from
Mineralnie Vodi on September 1, my friends, photojournalists, hired a GAZelle van. Not a car. A large vehicle. We rode in it from
Mineralnie Vodi to Beslan, crossing several roadblocks. At the roadblock between
Kabardino-Balkaria and North Ossetia, we hit a huge jam. A long line. Some guy came up
to us and said [*~$7 on 1 September 2004]
that for 200 rubles*,
we could skip the line. We paid him the 200 rubles. He escorted our car
past the roadblock. They wrote down
our driver’s ID, his last name —
he had to show his ID. Us, they didn’t even
check our passports. They didn’t check our bags. They didn’t even
look inside the car. We could’ve been
carrying anything. I had this situation happen to me at least at that
roadblock pretty often when I’d pass it
afterward. Meaning, this was a place where you paid
to drive through. Everyone knew about that.
In Beslan too. So this question,
“How did they get past?” when people asked it
in Beslan, it didn’t end
with a question mark. It ended
with an exclamation mark. Because people were
outraged by the fact… by this corruption
on roads and that you can
get around like that. Importantly though,
the official version states that the vehicle didn’t cross
any road blocks, driving on dirt roads instead from Psedah to Beslan. [Psedah and Beslan are approx. 40 km apart]
Yet when they attempted
reconstruction, [Psedah and Beslan are approx. 40 km apart]
and the women, Mothers of Beslan,
drove those roads… and the women, Mothers of Beslan,
drove those roads… Rather, they couldn’t. They said the road
was so bad that their car couldn’t
drive on it. – Let alone a…
– GAZ. Yes. A large truck with over 30 people and loaded with weapons. That’s just weird. So you know, if you ignore
the official version, you could assume anything. Like, they may have driven
on a regular road. ‘Cause for example, hostages later recalled that one of the terrorists
told them, “You wouldn’t believe
how we passed.” Another one said, “They just sold you,
because “We paid $20,000
and they let us pass.” These are some of the things
the hostages later said in court. You could call it the perfect
illustration for, [*Quote from the Soviet film]
[A Man from the Boulevard des Capucines (1987)]
[set in the Wild West. The phrase, uttered about America,]
[is believed to have been concealed criticism of Russia.]
“Corruption will ruin this country.”* Yes. Absolutely. Is it true that North Ossetia
and Ingushetia military knew that SOMETHING could
go down on September 1? They had intelligence
of a possible terrorist attack. That’s what I meant. They did receive this
intelligence in Beslan. Particularly, the director… acting director
of OCD Sohiev [*Hereinafter MVD]
and Ministry of Internal Affairs*
of Ossetia. At 5 AM, they got a message
from Chechnia that terrorists intend to occupy
a school in Beslan. There were other
messages too. That people in Ossetia saw suspicious Chechens who allegedly said,
“Sucks that it’s kids, “it’s not their fault,
but what can you do?” – Before the attack?
– Before the attack. This happened.
It’s documented. We asked these questions:
why? Hostages and relatives of hostages
asked this in court: why were all these
messages ignored? This is a question
for the investigation. Let me get this straight. At 5 AM, MVD of North Ossetia, 5 AM on September 1, receives a message that… A Mr. Arsamikov
has been arrested. According to him, there is a plan to capture a school
in Beslan on September 1. Not even extra security. I understand the only
police officer in the school – A woman. Fatima.
– …the woman, was unarmed? She was unarmed. Yes. How did terrorists from Ingushetia
manage to get to North Ossetia? In reality, and this was something hostages, relatives,
and citizens of Beslan said in court, a portion of the terrorists… First, the way they described
the crisis and the number
of terrorists — there were at least
twice as many. From the descriptions
and cross-descriptions, from all these reports,
you get the picture that there were more terrorists:
more women, more men, different teams. And people saw them in Beslan
before the attack on the marketplace,
in the school, at the… People of Beslan later insistently
gave these reports, but the authorities
didn’t listen and didn’t check. The terrorists were already in Beslan
several days before the attack. [What was going on]
[inside the school?] How the day started? It started with me
getting up first, because we had to go buy
flowers for Madina, who was just
starting school. – So dad and I…
– Madina is your sister in the other room?
– Yes, her. So I got up early, but not before mom and dad. Out of the girls. We have a third sister, Vika.
It’s three of us. And so I went to buy flowers. Right? You bought ’em,
and the three of you… I bought flowers.
And we went, all three girls, our mom… She was both taking
Madina to school and she also worked there. She was a nurse at
School Number One. The four of us drove, I mean went,
to school. We also had a girl,
our neighbor, with us. We asked her to film
the assembly for us. She was an adult and only went
to school because we asked her to film Madina’s first
school assembly. So the camera that the terrorists
then used to film everything, that was our camera. Yes. The police has
this tape somewhere, where first,
we get out the door… Just our family
leaving home. I think there was some
footage of us at school. Then it ends abruptly. This girl was also the one who set
the “Fun Time” label. [ВРЕМЯ ВЕСЕЛЬЯ, VREMIA VESELYA]
[Rus. “Fun Time”] She set a label
saying “Fun Time.” First assembly.
It was meant to be a celebration. I remember shopping for a jacket
and stuff with mom the day before. I remember I really wanted… I don’t know why, but I really wanted
to go to school ASAP. I was going to go with mom,
but she was taking too long. I said, “I’m going ahead,”
and went with friends. On this particular day,
I remember this so clearly, I really wanted
to go to school, to see my classmates,
you know? To talk about something. I was standing facing the school’s main entrance. [↑ HALLWAY AND CLASSROOMS]
[← CAFETERIA]
[↓ GYM (TURNED MEMORIAL)]
Right at the… [↑ HALLWAY AND CLASSROOMS]
[← CAFETERIA]
[↓ GYM (TURNED MEMORIAL)]
Where you probably came in. [↑ HALLWAY AND CLASSROOMS]
[← CAFETERIA]
[↓ GYM (TURNED MEMORIAL)]
I was facing the entrance and saw people wearing masks running and shooting up. Honestly, I didn’t
realize at first, until they ran up
very close. I mean I didn’t realize
what was going on. I didn’t understand
until it turned ugly. ‘Cause… some people… You know, it’s so weird that… how responsive you become
in moments like this. Not to yourself. To the urging
thing inside you. And I wouldn’t say that I was
that scared at the moment. I mean I WAS scared, but I just felt
that I had to run inside. These people
are shooting in the air, yelling,
“Everyone inside!” There was this whole
commotion. They quickly drove this large
crowd of people inside the school
in one fell swoop. Fatima didn’t go alone,
did she? She went with her sister
and the kids from our block. Her mom wasn’t taking her? She didn’t.
She saw them off. She went downstairs and outside
and saw them off, ’cause there was
a crowd of them. She planned to stay
to feed Georik… [Georgiy, Fatima’s brother]
She wanted to stay
to feed Georik… [Georgiy, Fatima’s brother]
– He was six months old?
– Yes. [Georgiy, Fatima’s brother]
…then meet up with them later,
’cause they were going to the park [Georgiy, Fatima’s brother]
to walk around
and take pictures. to walk around
and take pictures. So she never went
to the school. She stayed with the baby. – So two sisters went to school…
– Yes, two sisters went to school. They sat together. She told me:
“We sat together. “Some woman sitting next to us
took care of us. “For example, she told me: ‘Can you take your shoes off?
They’re brand new. ‘How about this: you’ll go…
you’ll pee in them, ‘and we’ll all drink pee
out of them.'” She said: “I don’t remember
anyone else. “I was so scared,
I kept crying.” So the younger sister
told her: “Fatia, try to fall asleep. “I’ll hold you. Just sleep. “Because you cry,
and they might kill us.” She often recalls this. She said, “I probably spent the whole thing
asleep from terror.” They also used older boys
to plant bombs, right? Yes. They did.
They used me too. They used those who
seemed physically fit. I remember holding
this thing. It was like a… It was a… You know big 2.5-liter
Coca-Cola bottles? You cut it in half. This thing consisted of two
of those plastic bottom halves screwed one into another with explosives
and projectiles inside, held together
with scotch tape. You basically
saw everything. I saw what was inside it. – So.
– Screws, nuts, ball bearings. Yeah. Bits of metal, nails,
and so on. I remember how they
led out the men who, in their estimate,
could offer resistance. They took them out
and shot them. [In this classroom, on September 1, 2004,]
[terrorists shot and killed parents of elementary]
[students of School Number One]
I think our shop teacher
was among them. [In this classroom, on September 1, 2004,]
[terrorists shot and killed parents of elementary]
[students of School Number One]
I remember…
They were just lying in the hallway. No covers or anything.
Just lying like this. They led us… That’s when I saw
the first dead bodies. What did you eat
and drink? At first, water. Did they bring it? Yeah. They would bring a bucket
and put it somewhere. Afterward, we tore off
bits of fabric… When they stopped letting us
go to the bathroom, we’d urinate into a bottle. You tore off some gauze. – Bit of clothes?
– Or clothes, yeah. You put it over the bottle
and drank it. Then… – You drank your own urine?
– Yes. Not necessarily your own. Then, I remember,
I even ate rose petals. A cactus. Someone gave me a
whatchamacallit… A small kalanchoe. Know what it is? It’s like a cactus. Kalanchoe has these
jagged leaves. They use it to treat eyes.
Or conjunctivitis or something. I ate some of that. But mostly stuff that
potentially had liquid in it: like flowers or rose petals that we brought
for the assembly. They let us drink water. At first, they let us
use the bathroom. But only until… until they said on TV that there were
300 people in the school. That’s when Hodov
stormed in yelling: “If they think there’s
300 of you in here, [In reality, the terrorists were holding 1128 hostages]
“we’ll reduce you to 300.” [In reality, the terrorists were holding 1128 hostages]
They stopped letting us use
the bathroom or drink water. They stopped letting us use
the bathroom or drink water. The lies from the committee about
the number of hostages – …actually infuriated…
– I don’t know whose lie it was. But because the media
said this, yes. This infuriated and
made them more cruel. [What were the negotiations like?] As I understand it now, very quickly, within two hours
of the attack, they Kremlin knew the number
of hostages. They knew that if the country found out that
there was over a thousand hostages, most of them, children, the reaction to the tragedy
would be very predictable: people would insist on doing whatever
it takes to save the children. Including negotiating
with the terrorists. That was the only way
to save the hostages. In the past and even today,
researching this matter, I could never understand
why it was important that the country didn’t know
the real number of hostages. Why was it important? The country didn’t know
the scale of the tragedy. I came to Beslan
on September 2. I’d never been there before,
but two hours later, after talking to
the hostages’ families who’d spent a day and a half
compiling a list of names and were demanding
the authorities and the media, particularly the official
news channels, to release the information that there were
more than 700 or 800 hostages, they had a list of names, I realized the authorities were deliberately
spreading wrong hostage number figures. First they said 120.
Then 354. This was the number
the authorities stopped at. Currently, [Lev Dzugaev, press secretary of the president]
[of North Ossetia, Aleksandr Dzasohov]
the hostage list
contains 354 names. [Lev Dzugaev, press secretary of the president]
[of North Ossetia, Aleksandr Dzasohov]
(Female voice) Impossible! (Woman 1) How many?
(Woman 2) How many did he say?
(Woman 3) 300 people. (Female voice) 300?!
Do you not have shame?! (Woman) But what’s the point? (Woman 1) How can it be 300,
when there’s a 1000 of them? (Woman 2) Yesterday, you said “130!” (Woman 1) There’s at least 800
children alone. (Woman 1) It’s an unprecedented situation.
No one’s ever taken so many
children hostage. (Woman 3) Speak up so they hear you.
(Woman 1) But who will admit? (Woman 1) It’s a completely different reaction
between a 1000 and 300 children! (Woman 2) It can’t be 350. (Woman 2) We know better. (Voice 1) Lady, can you step back?
(Voice 2) Can I ask you? (Voice) Cameras… [Dmitriy Peskov, then first deputy]
[of Vladimir Putin’s press secretary] Why? Because 354 hostages
and 1200 hostages in a scenario where an assault
without casualties is impossible are two completely
different situations. The fact that an assault without
casualties is impossible was confirmed by General Tihonov
of FSB Special Ops Center. He said they
scouted the school. It’s an old school.
No basement. No ventilation. They couldn’t pump the gas.
They brought it over – …to try and do what they did at…
– Nord-Ost. Yes, at the Nord-Ost siege, where they pumped gas
into the building. No other options, only assault. This means deaths
among hostages and deaths among
the Spetsnaz. In that situation,
there was only one option, negotiations. To save the children. The nation didn’t know how many
children were inside. It only learned it
after the assault. When the coffin
procession started and people spent a week burying
their dead after the crisis, only then the nation learned
what had happened. Nurpasha Kulaev,
the only surviving terrorist, [Susanna Dudieva]
[One of the founders of Mothers of Beslan]
[Lost her son Zaur in the crisis]
said that for every one of the four officials
the terrorists wanted to talk to, [Susanna Dudieva]
[One of the founders of Mothers of Beslan]
[Lost her son Zaur in the crisis]
they’d release 150 children. [Susanna Dudieva]
[One of the founders of Mothers of Beslan]
[Lost her son Zaur in the crisis]
Yes. [Susanna Dudieva]
[One of the founders of Mothers of Beslan]
[Lost her son Zaur in the crisis]
Was there any proof
that it wasn’t a trick? Was there any proof
that it wasn’t a trick? Say, Dzasohov
would’ve come in, they would’ve grabbed or shot him,
and not released any children? They invited four people
to negotiations: [Aleksandr Dzasohov, then president of North Ossetia (1998-2005)]
[Murat Ziazikov, then president of Ingushetia (2002-2008)]
[Aslambek Aslahanov, then advisor of President of Russia]
[Leonid Roshal, children’s doctor]
Dzasohov, Ziazikov,
Aslahanov, and Roshal. [Aleksandr Dzasohov, then president of North Ossetia (1998-2005)]
[Murat Ziazikov, then president of Ingushetia (2002-2008)]
[Aslambek Aslahanov, then advisor of President of Russia]
[Leonid Roshal, children’s doctor]
[Vladimir Rushaylo, head of MVD (1999-2001)]
– Or Rushaylo. Unclear.
– Yes. Maybe Rushaylo. [Aleksandr Dzasohov, then president of North Ossetia (1998-2005)]
[Murat Ziazikov, then president of Ingushetia (2002-2008)]
[Aslambek Aslahanov, then advisor of President of Russia]
[Leonid Roshal, children’s doctor]
[Vladimir Rushaylo, head of MVD (1999-2001)]
But we… Roshal drove down
and was ready to go in. We believe they wanted Roshal,
because they associated this operation
with Nord-Ost. I believe that Nurpashi Kulaev
told the truth, because when we asked him,
“Why didn’t you pick up your rifle..?” Rita Sedakova said: “You should’ve picked up your rifle
and killed your own “if you felt sorry for the children. “You would’ve been a hero.” To this, he said: “Why didn’t the four
of yours want to be heroes? “They should’ve come.
I knew, I heard “that for every official, they were going to
release 150 children.” [OFFICIAL=]
“that for every official, they were going to
release 150 children.” [=150 HOSTAGES]
“that for every official, they were going to
release 150 children.” [150 HOSTAGES]
That’s 600 hostages released. Shepel said: [Nikolay Shepel, then Deputy Prosecutor General of Russia]
Shepel said: [Nikolay Shepel, then Deputy Prosecutor General of Russia]
“This is a lie. Nurpashi Kulaev
would say anything now.” To that our women replied, “So some of Kulaev’s
testimony is trustworthy “and some isn’t?” The GAZ truck is
a trustworthy part? Yes, he confirmed that they
came in a GAZ-66 truck. He showed the road
they took. So that part is trustworthy, but when he says that they
would’ve released children in exchange
for the four men, that’s untrustworthy? See? Again, there should’ve
been an investigation and they should’ve examined
everything properly. You had two kids inside? Two of mine, yes. [Taymuraz Mamsurov]
[At the time, Speaker of the Parliament of North Ossetia.]
[Later, head of the republic (2005-2015)]
A boy and a girl? [Taymuraz Mamsurov]
[At the time, Speaker of the Parliament of North Ossetia.]
[Later, head of the republic (2005-2015)]
Youngest son and daughter. [Taymuraz Mamsurov]
[At the time, Speaker of the Parliament of North Ossetia.]
[Later, head of the republic (2005-2015)]
Out of four, youngest girl
and youngest boy. What were you doing
in those three days? How did you live
in those three days? In the midst of everyone who was trying to figure out
what was going on. I was in the administration where I’d previously
worked for 8 years. The building I mean. That’s where
the committee settled. That’s where Spetsnaz arrived. As someone who’d studied
at that school the full ten years, I answered their questions
regarding whether it had basements
or underground passages.
After that, we just assisted them. Tried to help them when a terrible thunderstorm
struck on the first night, and those scumbags called
and said if the light went out for more than five minutes,
they’d start shooting children in groups of 50. So in five minutes I had to organize self-sustaining power,
reserve power, and so on. Basically, anything that
had to be done to ensure a peaceful outcome, we did. Were you on the committee? No, I wasn’t. The terrorists said… We had a negotiator named Vitaliy
talking to them. [Negotiator in question is FSB’s Vitaliy Zangionov]
We had a negotiator named Vitaliy
talking to them. [Negotiator in question is FSB’s Vitaliy Zangionov]
He said they demanded that I
come to them within five minutes. He said they demanded that I
come to them within five minutes. So. I said to my friend
named Sergey… My dad had died by then. My mother was at home,
waiting. I said:
“Sergey, do me a favor. “I’ll go in. If they only off me,
and the children live, “you first tell my mother
that the children are alive. “Only then tell her I’m gone. “If they kill everyone,
then it’s up to you.” I spent the two or three
remaining minutes on… I figured they were
great experts at everything. I asked them,
how to act with the terrorists to maximize my…
maybe haggle out some 50 people or something
in exchange for myself. While they were
giving me pointers, they called Vitaliy and said,
no, send Aushev. Maybe we’ll call in
this guy later. So… they canceled. In that moment,
I was calculating and thinking how I’m going to talk
to these scumbags and not jump at them so as to not ruin everything. “Or maybe I should?” This is what was
boiling inside me. Otherwise, of course I was nervous, ashamed, afraid, wanted to just storm inside. All this mishmash
was there. Why did they want you? Because they had your children
and you were a major official? Yes. They knew
they had my children. I understand, out of the four,
only Roshal went to negotiate? [Leonid Roshal flew to Beslan on the evening]
[of September 1, but the terrorists denied him]
[entrance to the school and didn’t accept]
[the food and water for the hostages.] [Leonid Roshal flew to Beslan on the evening]
[of September 1, but the terrorists denied him]
[entrance to the school and didn’t accept]
[the food and water for the hostages.]
– I mean physically approached the school.
– I’d call it “was allowed to.” [Leonid Roshal flew to Beslan on the evening]
[of September 1, but the terrorists denied him]
[entrance to the school and didn’t accept]
[the food and water for the hostages.]
– “Allowed to?”
– Yes. [Leonid Roshal flew to Beslan on the evening]
[of September 1, but the terrorists denied him]
[entrance to the school and didn’t accept]
[the food and water for the hostages.]
Because Ziazikov ran away. Because Ziazikov ran away. Aslahanov came too late. He came on Friday at 5 PM. – Friday was September 3?
– Yes. It was September 3. So. Dzasohov wanted to go in. In fact, members of the Ossetian Parliament
were willing to trade places with hostages. But Pankov,
then Deputy Minister of MVD, said, “If you come close to the school
or do anything like that, we’ll arrest you.” Why did they invite them
to negotiations? They say, whether it’s a myth or not,
that for every one of the four, they would’ve immediately
released150 people. That’s what hostages
said in court. That the terrorists were willing
to release the hostages. See, when you
call for someone, it means that at the very least,
you have something to say. When Aushev went inside
on September 2 in place of Ziazikov who freaked out,
called in sick, and vanished… – He actually freaked out?
– Yes. He actually freaked out.
– That can’t be real. Oh, it can. It can.
You don’t know Ziazikov. Nice person.
Not very brave though. So… – Aushev went in his place?
– He went in. Nobody shot him. Ziazikov was afraid
they’d shoot him. Maybe his fear was… Like, it’s always a choice. It’s a philosophical question
if we’re honest: should you agree
to their demands? I mean the ones like independence of Chechnia, end of military conflict,
and so on. These are fairly unrealistic things,
to be honest. So. In that sense, yeah, it’s a philosophical question for the government. And it’s really hard
to say definitively what’s right or wrong
or what the dos and don’ts are. But if we’re talking about
a specific situation where you can win time or save SOME people, then you have to keep
the conversation going non-stop. This process…
It’s a whole science. Well, my… [Ruslan Aushev]
[Ex-president of Ingushetia (1993-2002)]
[Only negotiator to come inside]
[the occupied Beslan school]
My very close… [Ruslan Aushev]
[Ex-president of Ingushetia (1993-2002)]
[Only negotiator to come inside]
[the occupied Beslan school] [Ruslan Aushev]
[Ex-president of Ingushetia (1993-2002)]
[Only negotiator to come inside]
[the occupied Beslan school]
I call him brother. [Ruslan Aushev]
[Ex-president of Ingushetia (1993-2002)]
[Only negotiator to come inside]
[the occupied Beslan school]
Vaha Agaev.
He’s a deputy of the Duma. He was looking for me. He said: “It’s urgent.
Where are you?” I was outside the city. I came back.
He came over. He said Shoygu
was looking for me. [Sergey Shoygu, then head of Ministry of Emergency]
[Situations of Russia (1994-2012)]
Then Shoygu called him. [Sergey Shoygu, then head of Ministry of Emergency]
[Situations of Russia (1994-2012)] He had asked him to find me,
knowing we’re close. Shoygu called him. He gave me the phone.
We talked. He asked if I would
fly to Beslan. I said yes. In the morning, they told me
the flight I was taking. And so, early September 2,
I took the flight to Beslan. I went to the committee
and said, I’m here. When I arrived,
I recognized someone. The Minister of Internal Affairs of Ingushetia
from the time of my presidency, Hamzat Gutseriev and his younger
brother Mihail Gutseriev. [Mihail Gutseriev is a Russian businessman.]
[Owner of SAFMAR Industrial and Financial Group.]
[In 2004, Forbes estimated his wealth at $530 million] [Mihail Gutseriev is a Russian businessman.]
[Owner of SAFMAR Industrial and Financial Group.]
[In 2004, Forbes estimated his wealth at $530 million]
They’d already arrived. [Mihail Gutseriev is a Russian businessman.]
[Owner of SAFMAR Industrial and Financial Group.]
[In 2004, Forbes estimated his wealth at $530 million] [Mihail Gutseriev is a Russian businessman.]
[Owner of SAFMAR Industrial and Financial Group.]
[In 2004, Forbes estimated his wealth at $530 million]
I started asking about
the situation. [Mihail Gutseriev is a Russian businessman.]
[Owner of SAFMAR Industrial and Financial Group.]
[In 2004, Forbes estimated his wealth at $530 million]
I knew the school
was occupied. [Mihail Gutseriev is a Russian businessman.]
[Owner of SAFMAR Industrial and Financial Group.]
[In 2004, Forbes estimated his wealth at $530 million]
I started asking about
the situation. I started asking about
the situation. I said to the Beslan
operation committee, “Alright. I’m here.
What do I have to do?” There were certainly
lots of questions on everyone’s minds. First, obviously,
the number of hostages. At first, they said
there were 356 people. Also, no one on the committee knew
what the demands were. That was obvious.
They also demanded… My understanding of
why they invited me was that they wanted to see either Dzasohov,
the president of North Ossetia, or Ziazikov,
the president of Ingushetia, or Roshal. – You know, the children’s doctor.
– Yes. But apparently,
none of the three went in. They needed someone to go inside.
They remembered me. I got on a plane.
I said okay. Mihail Gutseriev, some way, somehow, contacted the so-called press secretary
of the squad that occupied… of the terrorists
that occupied… Yep, they had
a press secretary! …that occupied the school. And he could contact him. So we… I said, “Let me talk to him.” He called the man.
I said, “I’m so and so. “I’d like to enter the school.” He said, “Wait.” I waited for about an hour. He called back and said, “Okay. “You can go in.” They told me the path
I should take. And I went. Did they instruct you… No. – …before you went?
– No. Wait. No one on
the committee told you..? What would they tell me?
How could they instruct me? You were going inside a school
with over a thousand hostages. The committee had to have had
some strategy? The strategy of the committee had to be:
what do they want? That’s what I figured.
But they didn’t instruct me. The strat was to FIND OUT
what they wanted, right? To find out
their demands, yes. I said, yes, I will go in. Three men in masks met me. They started putting
whatchamacallit on me… A bag. I said, “No. “I’m not wearing a bag.”
We got into a bit of a squabble. I said,
“I’m not wearing it. “Either you…
or I’m out.” And so on. So they put this thing on me. They said, okay. They put this thing on me. You know, the thing
they put on during surgeries It’s like this cover to hide… They probably thought
I was wearing a camera. You know, like this.
I said, okay, put it on. I entered the school. When I went inside, their — what, commander? —
came up to me. [Ruslan Huchbarov]
[Terrorist nicknamed Colonel]
[Led the occupation of Beslan school]
their — what, commander? —
came up to me. [Ruslan Huchbarov]
[Terrorist nicknamed Colonel]
[Led the occupation of Beslan school] [Ruslan Huchbarov]
[Terrorist nicknamed Colonel]
[Led the occupation of Beslan school]
Their leader. [Ruslan Huchbarov]
[Terrorist nicknamed Colonel]
[Led the occupation of Beslan school]
I don’t know who he was,
but he was… [Ruslan Huchbarov]
[Terrorist nicknamed Colonel]
[Led the occupation of Beslan school]
They were filming non-stop. [Ruslan Huchbarov]
[Terrorist nicknamed Colonel]
[Led the occupation of Beslan school] [Ruslan Huchbarov]
[Terrorist nicknamed Colonel]
[Led the occupation of Beslan school]
There was a camera
filming everyone. Then the school principal
came in. The school principal
was an elderly woman. She said:
“Ruslan Sultanovich! “356 is all wrong.
There’s 1200 of us here.” She said,
“Why are they lying? “It’s not 350. It’s over 1200.” – I understand this made them mad?
– Yes. “I beseech all of you, dearies. “For God’s sake, “for Christ’s sake, “don’t hurt any of my children.” “It’s not up to us.
It’s up to Putin, your president.” “Well, I wouldn’t reach Putin.”
“I know, I know.” Is Ruslan Aushev a hero? I think so. Ruslan Aushev commands
a lot of respect both in his home Ingushetia
and in Chechnia, because during the
Chechnia conflicts, Ingushetia always offered shelter
to Ingush refugees. A lot of Chechens are grateful
to him for that. And Ingushes too. The second reason is that the Vainah peoples value blood ties
very highly. Even if two groups belong to different
political camps, even if they’re enemies, they still think of each other
with this sort of… You could probably
call it “respect.” Because they know,
for example, who the other person’s grandfather
or great grandfather was. These sorts of things. They’re foreign to us, but to them,
they’re important. I believe these two factors explain the way
they treated him. Oh and yeah, sorry,
the third reason they talked to him
with such respect: he was the only person to approach the school. To go inside. They couldn’t help
but respect him for that. – For having balls of steel.
– Basically. When I asked them
to take me to the gym… When you enter this gym, on both sides, you have… You know, when you enter the gym,
you’ve got changing rooms. Those changing rooms were packed
with women with babies. The babies were basically naked. This was what caught my eye.
A baby… Small babies. They were all…
This was day number two. I believe it was.
This was… September 2. Yeah, it was the second day. No water. The stuffy heat. I saw the shape they’re in. This gave me a… I had to do everything to at least
get these babies out. I went in the gym.
It was packed full. I said, “Do you know me?” They said, “We do.” I said… We’ll I tried to… calm them down, tell them
it’s going to be okay. To give people hope. Though I knew
it’s going to be very tough. After I left the gym,
we sat down to talk. I said,
“What are your demands?” He gave me
a piece paper. It said… I went, “Who’s your commander?”
“Basaev.” “What are your demands?”
He handed me a piece of paper
with their demands. I told him: “Man, let the babies go.
They didn’t do anything. “You must have children. Or had.
What could a baby have done to you?” He hesitated at first. Then said, okay. Fifteen babies
and eleven mothers. So twenty-six in total.
Fifteen babies. When he started letting them out, I was there monitoring, they started thanking them. I said,
“Just go already. Quick.” The women stopped
to thank the terrorists. I was like:
“Just go already! Go!” (Woman 1) “Thank you!”
(Woman 2) “Yes, thank you all!”
(Woman 3) “Thank you so much! We’ll pray for you!” (Woman) “Thank you all.” And then this… She was probably a sister.
16 years old maybe. A terrorist went, “Hold.” “You’re not the mother.” “Who are you?”
“Sister.”
“Right.” I said,
“Quick, give me the baby.” I was afraid they’d
send it back too. I took the baby. I went, “Whose son?” “Tsah… Tskaev,” she said. “Ruslan Tskaev.” I said,
“Whose son is it?” She said,
“Rusland Tskaev.” I took the baby
and left with it. Do you think Aushev
is a hero? To me, he is. Because he saved people
I care about and love: Anita, Milana, Zalina, Amina, everyone, Rita with her children. He is the only man, whom they
didn’t even call, but who went in. People have different
opinions about it. But to me, he’s a hero,
because thanks to him, those 26 people are alive. They’re alive.
They enjoy life. I WOULD tell him, “thank you.”
And I WOULD shake his hand. Why are there
different opinions? Because of the Prigorodniy
District. [Prigorodniy District is a territory on the border]
[of Ossetia and Ingushetia and the cause of the conflict]
[between the two peoples. Ruslan Aushev spoke]
[a number of times in favor of returning a part]
[of Prigorodniy District to Ingushetia]
But in that moment, [Prigorodniy District is a territory on the border]
[of Ossetia and Ingushetia and the cause of the conflict]
[between the two peoples. Ruslan Aushev spoke]
[a number of times in favor of returning a part]
[of Prigorodniy District to Ingushetia]
when everyone could’ve died, [Prigorodniy District is a territory on the border]
[of Ossetia and Ingushetia and the cause of the conflict]
[between the two peoples. Ruslan Aushev spoke]
[a number of times in favor of returning a part]
[of Prigorodniy District to Ingushetia]
when no one knew
what was going on in the gym, [Prigorodniy District is a territory on the border]
[of Ossetia and Ingushetia and the cause of the conflict]
[between the two peoples. Ruslan Aushev spoke]
[a number of times in favor of returning a part]
[of Prigorodniy District to Ingushetia]
when… when… when everyone was praying
for the safety of their loved ones… In that moment, Aushev went in and led them out.
Yes, he’s an Ingush. Most people he led out
were Ingush. And this made people
suspicious? This made people
suspicious. But this man led out 26 babies… 26 people, including babies. I’m very grateful to him. – They handed you a note…
– Yes. – …that you were to pass to the committee.
– Yes. – Did you take it to the committee?
– Of course. What did it say? It had all the political
demands. I remember it went:
number one… Ah! The curious intro: “To the President of the Russian
Federation Putin. “From Allah’s servant Basaev.” And the list. Withdrawal of troops. Chechnia in CIS. Ruble currency union. Joint effort in fighting
international terrorism. In Caucasus, Russia,
everywhere. Pretty much it. – You knew these were impossible demands?
– Of course I knew. Obviously, the higher-ups
wouldn’t have agreed. Did anyone contact you
after you came out? – You just told the committee what happened…
– I showed them the list… Right! There was another thing.
He asked me, “Can you write something down?”
I went, “Like what?” He said, “For every kill… “Per one of us killed
we’ll kill 50 hostages. “Per one of us injured
we’ll kill 25 hostages. “They shut off power,
we’ll kill five. “And don’t turn off
the TV either. “If they shut off power,
we will “kill five… “hostages.” That’s basically it.
Those were their demands. I wrote the last part down
and brought it to the committee. They let you go? – Meaning?
– The committee.
What did you do afterward? – You realized that..?
– I stayed with the committee.
I said, “I’m staying.” I knew… I mean, how can you
leave in this situation? – Did Vladimir Putin contact you
personally on September 2?
– No. Nobody contacted me. Yakovlev was there, President’s envoy in North Caucasus. Deputy Prosecutor General… He went on to become
Chief Military Prosecutor.
Fidiniskiy. Fridinskiy. And other people: Dzasohov, a bunch of generals. Why didn’t Dzasohov and Ziazikov
enter the school? I don’t know. Dzasohov told me they
forbade him to go inside. Do you believe him? That’s what he told me. He was the president
of the republic. I had to believe him.
That’s what he said. That’s what I… I’m telling you
what he told me. – And Ziazikov vanished?
– Ziazikov disappeared. How is it possible? Coward. He’s a coward. Do you believe what
Nurpashi Kulaev, the only surviving
terrorist, says? That for every person
they’d invited that came in they would’ve released
150 people? I don’t know. Kulaev could say anything.
It’s hard to say if they would’ve. At the very least,
they should’ve gone inside. Why? Because you have to.
Because you want a dialogue. When you’ve got hostages, especially
women and children, every self-respecting man
has to go in. No matter his prospects. [FATIMA] But it’s an unknown piece? They showed us
a bearing ball. Round and smooth like that. And a quarter of that ball was sharp like a blade. For a while, we didn’t know for sure
if it’s Fatia or not. ‘Cause when we found her,
she was totally… They all looked the same
in the emergency room. The tag on her leg said,
“Dzagoeva Fatima.” “DzAgoeva” instead of “Dzgoeva.” I went in and out and
couldn’t tell if it’s Fatia or not. I couldn’t identify her. But her mother, Zhanna,
recognized her. She said: “We have the same birthmark.
This is my daughter.” [DZGOEVA ZALINA ALIKOVNA (b.1996)] [On 1 September 2004, 10-year-old Fatima]
[went to school with her younger sister Zalina] [On 1 September 2004, 10-year-old Fatima]
[went to school with her younger sister Zalina]
[Zalina died] [On 1 September 2004, 10-year-old Fatima]
[went to school with her younger sister Zalina]
[Zalina died]
[She was eight] How often does she
bring up her sister and how? Very often. Maybe you saw the picture
in the other room. There’s a little shelf
with her picture. [*A hypocoristic form of both the name Zalina]
[and the word “zayats,” (“hare”). Compare with “bunny.”]
[“Zaya” and “Zayka” are both common]
[pet names for loved ones.]
Every morning we say,
“Good morning, Zaya*.” Every night we say, “Zayka, thank you.
You look after me. “Sweet dreams.” She doesn’t let us
take the picture down. Also, every trip… Wherever we go. Like, when we go to Vladikavkaz, or anywhere really,
she always says, “Let’s go visit Zayka. “I’ll ask her for protection.
And just sit with her a bit.” We go to the cemetery. She always says,
“Zaya, I know you look after me. “Please. I need to get to this place. “You always look after me,
don’t you?” [Every year, Fatima needs to go]
[to Germany for rehabilitation] [Every year, Fatima needs to go]
[to Germany for rehabilitation]
[To cover the cost, Fatima’s family]
[sold everything they could] [Every year, Fatima needs to go]
[to Germany for rehabilitation]
[To cover the cost, Fatima’s family]
[sold everything they could]
[For the most recent trip in summer of 2019,]
[they had to collect the money]
[with the help of journalists] Why does she have to go
to Germany for rehabilitation? The reason we go
to Germany for it is because now and then,
we have to look for clinics where Fatia
can do something. We don’t have
any of that locally. We can get 30 minutes
of massage, maybe 30 minutes
in the pool, massage, exercising. Not even 30. A little less. Not a lot of room. If we’re going somewhere for treatment,
we’re using what they’ve got. The place we went to
in Düsseldorf, Brandenburg rather, we initially spent
two months in rehabilitation at a time. Everything we achieved, we achieved
thanks to that clinic. We got up from the chair. We started talking. We started walking. We started eating.
We took off the diaper. We started talking. All of that,
thanks to that clinic. She’d spend morning till
evening in there. From seven to five,
she’d be doing something. Exercising. In 2005,
we had our first surgery. They put in
the titanium implant. They basically
put her skull together. But we also have a shunt. At the time, they probably didn’t
use them here, I don’t know, because no one could even
do a check-up here. – In Russia?
– Yes. Here. At the time. So sometimes we had to
fly to Germany to arrive, get a check-up, re-adjust the shunt, stay under supervision a bit,
and leave. But we haven’t been able afford
rehabilitation recently, because it’s really expensive. [Treatment in Germany consists of]
[check-ups and rehabilitation]
because it’s really expensive. [Treatment in Germany consists of]
[check-ups and rehabilitation]
Normally, we have enough for
check-ups and stay expenses. That, we’ve been able to afford. We get support,
we find the money, we ask for help. When asking doesn’t help, we get funding from
charity foundations. Kind-hearted people
don’t forget Fatia. But to go there regularly,
we’re sometimes forced to ask
for the money we need. Originally, we spent
our own money. People helped too. Fatia had money
on her account. Then we started selling… Fatia used to own
an apartment. It was compensation
for the lost girl. We started selling them. Every trip cost
one apartment. Sold the place.
Went over. Fixed something. Sold the place.
Went over. Fixed something. Now, we don’t have
anything to sell. We live in this
small apartment. This is all we have.
We can’t leave. We can’t move. Because we don’t have
the funds we used to. We’re sometimes forced to… I always plead dearly. We need the rehabilitation. Because Fatia feels a lot better
after rehabilitation. She walks better. She moves. She exercises. Here, she just sits.
This is her room. The corner in her bedroom
is her gym. This is her existence. We can’t take her anywhere, because you always need
an attendant. Some places don’t have an instructor.
Others are afraid of her for some reason. You said the state covered
the check-up trip? They do give the money. For check-ups. But not rehabilitation. For rehabilitation, we’ve been asking
for five years now. How much does
a check-up cost? A check-up… Well, consider that
a single MRI costs €900. – Euros?
– Yes. We stay there for 14 days
for the check-up. Which adds up to..? We round the number. €6,000-7,000. €6,000-7,000 per check-up. – Yes.
– The state covers that. – What about doing a full..?
– No, we can’t afford it. We haven’t been able to get the money
for rehabilitation recently. Rehabilitation costs 40? Yes. The clinic sent us
a bill for 40 thousand. Exactly two months with my
living expenses next to her totaled at €40,000. They often told us,
“You’re not the only ones in Beslan.” We even heard that, yes. But we respond
with a counter-question: Why should we
throw in the towel? The child wants to live.
She’s alive. She wants to get better.
Why should we..? They helped us in Germany. Okay! Make it so we can
get help here. We won’t ask you
for money again. But they can’t
help us here. I mean the treatment part. Lana said, as part of therapy,
they have horses. – Yes. Horses.
– What do you do with them? [Discussing rehabilitation in Germany]
– Yes. Horses.
– What do you do with them? [Discussing rehabilitation in Germany]
I ride them. [Discussing rehabilitation in Germany]
Woah! [Discussing rehabilitation in Germany]
I ride horses. [Discussing rehabilitation in Germany]
– Do you enjoy it?
– Yes. – Do you enjoy it?
– Yes. – In a saddle?
– Yes. In a saddle. – And you’re not scared?
– No, I’m not. I have these guys
walk with me. You know, the guys
that walk horsies? – A trainer?
– Yeah, a trainer. So what’s the point?
Being around horses helps? It’s a kind of therapy. – They also have bunnies there!
– Yeah, they do. – What do you do with bunnies?
– You pet them. You pet the bunnies. – And this also helps?
– Yes. Sometimes we have to wait
for a while until funding comes. Regular people start helping: celebrities, kids, donors. Fatia was very ill. This was two, no,
three years ago. We were very ill. And… We did a charity concert. It was broadcast live.
Fatia was there. She felt worse, but she didn’t want
to leave the show. And these kids
were raising funds. Raising and bringing them to us.
People gave what they could. And then they announced that
someone covered the remainder. “They wish to remain anonymous,
but someone completed the sum. “The fundraiser is complete.
You can leave for Germany now.” This was a young man.
Our footballer. Alan Dzagoev. He wanted us
to keep it under wraps. I am eternally grateful to him. Big thanks to him. Best wishes. – Was it a big sum?
– A million. – Rubles?
– Yes. And we were off. As I said, we were done in a week.
So fast. We brought her over. They adjusted the shunt. We got some treatment
and went back. That time really touched us. It made us very emotional. [In July, Fatima turned 25] I saw flowers and balloons
over there. Fatia turned 25
on the 14th. And when we were visiting,
we celebrated it at a restaurant. Our grandpa always says:
“Every time you’re leaving, “I somehow get this… “this wish to hug you all
very tight, “’cause what if you leave,
and I’ll never hug her again?” He’s elderly? He’s going on 82, but he rides a sports bike, so he ain’t elderly yet. – It’s your dad?
– Yes. But he sees that we’re very careful
with spending, ’cause we’re always saving, in case something happens. We sat down recently
and he said: “You know what? “I want us to celebrate Fatia’s
jubilee at a restaurant.” The weather was great too. We wanted to go
outside the city, but he went: “No. I want to gather
all her girl friends “and her family,
so we’re all there. “I want to throw an 80-person…
a 50-person banquet.” Obviously,
everyone pitched in a little. And we did it. You should’ve seen that
once-in-25-years glint in Fatia’s eyes. As soon as she stepped
into this restaurant, not just her family,
but everyone noticed that every year,
there’s some change in her, and for the first time in all the years,
she wanted to stand up and dance. She always used to say,
“No, I limp. “No, I’m a cripple. I’m disabled.” This time, every time she got up, she’d beeline
to the dance floor. Every time she went somewhere,
“No. I’m going to dance.” We all sat down. Many people shed
a happy tear. But everyone says there’s a little change
in her every year. She was so happy! When the celebration was over,
dad said, “Now, I can die in peace.” I said, “Now, you wait
for her next birthday.” Initially, Zhanna wouldn’t smile. [Zhanna is Fatima’s mother]
Initially, Zhanna wouldn’t smile. [Zhanna is Fatima’s mother]
Right after. She cried all the time. She’d get up in the morning,
stand and cry by the picture. It would make Fatia
that way too. Fatia was probably
taking note of all of it. She was once lying on the couch
and suddenly asked us: “Do you never go anywhere
and never smile “because I didn’t die too? “You would’ve probably smiled,
if I had died too?” Meaning: you cry all the time. Do you cry because I didn’t die? Or are you crying
because I survived? After that day, we decided that Fatia’s birthdays, whatever happens, but Fatia and her birthdays
are sacred to us. This day is truly
sacred to us. This was them preparing
journals for us. They were teaching
her to use the toothbrush,
to wash up. They held her,
and she did it herself. Here she’s learning to hold
the toothbrush. That’s Fatia. She brushes her teeth
herself these days? She does all of it herself,
of course! She takes care of herself. Here. See our scar over here? This whole part
is our titanium plate. This is them teaching
her to use… Here too. This is them
exercising at the gym. They strap her in.
She stand, she walks. If someone told you
on that flight, when you were
fixing her cap to, you know, keep her head from wobbling,
as awful as it sounds, and someone told you
she’ll get this far and walk herself and give us
high-fives when we meet?.. – Would you have believed?
– No. Not in a million years. What I love the most,
is that it’s all in one place. I recently said something.
I went, “You know, “when we originally went over
for the surgery, “I should’ve probably stayed
as a refugee.” I think had we regularly spent three-
or four-month periods there right after, and stayed there for longer, our results would’ve been
even better. But you couldn’t, because you
didn’t have the money? Of course.
How could I pay for it? This is us walking already. – We’re leaving today.
– Right? – But…
– When’s your flight? We’ll chat with you
and gonna be moving out. If we come back in a week or two,
what would you like us to bring? Nothing.
Bring yourselves. [While we were editing this episode,]
[our friends transferred 750,000 rubles to Fatima.]
[If you wish to help too,]
[the instructions are in the description] [Was there a way to save the hostages?] Politkovskaya was supposed to
immediately go there. [Anna Politkovskaya (1958-2006)]
[Journalist of Novaya Gazeta.]
[Most of her articles concerned Chechnia.]
[Negotiated with terrorists during the Nord-Ost siege.]
[Killed in the lobby of her apartment building]
[on 7 October 2006]
Politkovskaya was supposed to
immediately go there. [Anna Politkovskaya (1958-2006)]
[Journalist of Novaya Gazeta.]
[Most of her articles concerned Chechnia.]
[Negotiated with terrorists during the Nord-Ost siege.]
[Killed in the lobby of her apartment building]
[on 7 October 2006]
On the same day, she contacted
Zakaev over the phone. [Anna Politkovskaya (1958-2006)]
[Journalist of Novaya Gazeta.]
[Most of her articles concerned Chechnia.]
[Negotiated with terrorists during the Nord-Ost siege.]
[Killed in the lobby of her apartment building]
[on 7 October 2006]
She had her Nord-Ost experience
to work off of. [Anna Politkovskaya (1958-2006)]
[Journalist of Novaya Gazeta.]
[Most of her articles concerned Chechnia.]
[Negotiated with terrorists during the Nord-Ost siege.]
[Killed in the lobby of her apartment building]
[on 7 October 2006]
She knew negotiations were vital
in this situation. She took the… [Ahmed Zakaev, public representative]
[of Chechen terrorists that were hiding]
[in the mountains or abroad at the time]
She took the… [Ahmed Zakaev, public representative]
[of Chechen terrorists that were hiding]
[in the mountains or abroad at the time]
They canceled all direct flights
from Moscow to Vladikavkaz. [Ahmed Zakaev, public representative]
[of Chechen terrorists that were hiding]
[in the mountains or abroad at the time]
She had to take a detour
via Rostov. They slipped something
into her tea. She basically fell into a coma
in the Rostov airport. They barely saved her.
Someone poisoned her. On the second,
we had a staff meeting. I volunteered to go. On the second, they opened a flight
from Vnukovo airport for family members. They arrested Andrey Babitskiy
right in front of me. A fellow journalist that later
interviewed Basaev. [Andrey Babitskiy, journalist of Radio Svoboda]
[from 1989 to 2014. Worked in conflict zones.]
[During the Second Chechen War, gave live reports]
[and talked to the terrorists from besieged Grozniy]
A fellow journalist that later
interviewed Basaev. [Andrey Babitskiy, journalist of Radio Svoboda]
[from 1989 to 2014. Worked in conflict zones.]
[During the Second Chechen War, gave live reports]
[and talked to the terrorists from besieged Grozniy]
The terrorist Shamil Basaev
who organized the Beslan attack. [Andrey Babitskiy, journalist of Radio Svoboda]
[from 1989 to 2014. Worked in conflict zones.]
[During the Second Chechen War, gave live reports]
[and talked to the terrorists from besieged Grozniy]
They arrested him in Vnukovo
before my eyes, [Andrey Babitskiy, journalist of Radio Svoboda]
[from 1989 to 2014. Worked in conflict zones.]
[During the Second Chechen War, gave live reports]
[and talked to the terrorists from besieged Grozniy]
because, like Politkovskaya,
he also could contact because, like Politkovskaya,
he also could contact the Chechen resistance and its leaders, and could thus serve as a bridge
for negotiations. [Aslan Maskhadov was the leader of Chechen resistance]
and could thus serve as a bridge
for negotiations. [Aslan Maskhadov was the leader of Chechen resistance]
Which was a problem, because negotiating is what the government
never does in these situations, but it’s what you have to do
to save hostages. They arrested him in Vnukovo
before my eyes. I mean I saw it. Allegedly, for drinking beer
in a public place. That’s a lie. I’m a witness. I called the office and said:
“They arrested Babitskiy. What do I do?” They said: “Just stay down.
Your goal is to reach Beslan.” Why was the government
so afraid of anyone who could organize
these negotiations? Because
“we don’t negotiate with terrorists.” [“Russia doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.]
[She destroys them.”]
[Vladimir Putin, February 2004] [“Russia doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.]
[She destroys them.”]
[Vladimir Putin, February 2004]
This happened in Nord-Ost. [“Russia doesn’t negotiate with terrorists.]
[She destroys them.”]
[Vladimir Putin, February 2004]
This happened in Beslan. This happened in Beslan. In 2004, [Aslan Maskhadov, Soviet Army colonel. Appointed Deputy]
[Leader of Armed Forces of Ichkeria during the military]
[conflict in Chechnia. Commanded most terrorist]
[operations during the First Chechen War. In 1997, elected]
[president of Chechnia that he planned to turn into]
[an Islamic state. Same year, met with Boris Yeltsin]
[in Moscow to sign a peace treaty. After the start]
[of the Second Chechen War, held up in the mountains]
[with an armed squad. Condemned the Nord-Ost]
[hostage operation that Basaev claimed responsibility for.]
[Killed on 8 March 2005 in Chechnia]
Maskhadov was the president of Ichkeria,
independent Chechnia, [Aslan Maskhadov, Soviet Army colonel. Appointed Deputy]
[Leader of Armed Forces of Ichkeria during the military]
[conflict in Chechnia. Commanded most terrorist]
[operations during the First Chechen War. In 1997, elected]
[president of Chechnia that he planned to turn into]
[an Islamic state. Same year, met with Boris Yeltsin]
[in Moscow to sign a peace treaty. After the start]
[of the Second Chechen War, held up in the mountains]
[with an armed squad. Condemned the Nord-Ost]
[hostage operation that Basaev claimed responsibility for.]
[Killed on 8 March 2005 in Chechnia] [Aslan Maskhadov, Soviet Army colonel. Appointed Deputy]
[Leader of Armed Forces of Ichkeria during the military]
[conflict in Chechnia. Commanded most terrorist]
[operations during the First Chechen War. In 1997, elected]
[president of Chechnia that he planned to turn into]
[an Islamic state. Same year, met with Boris Yeltsin]
[in Moscow to sign a peace treaty. After the start]
[of the Second Chechen War, held up in the mountains]
[with an armed squad. Condemned the Nord-Ost]
[hostage operation that Basaev claimed responsibility for.]
[Killed on 8 March 2005 in Chechnia]
according to terrorist North Caucasian-
Chechen resistance. [Aslan Maskhadov, Soviet Army colonel. Appointed Deputy]
[Leader of Armed Forces of Ichkeria during the military]
[conflict in Chechnia. Commanded most terrorist]
[operations during the First Chechen War. In 1997, elected]
[president of Chechnia that he planned to turn into]
[an Islamic state. Same year, met with Boris Yeltsin]
[in Moscow to sign a peace treaty. After the start]
[of the Second Chechen War, held up in the mountains]
[with an armed squad. Condemned the Nord-Ost]
[hostage operation that Basaev claimed responsibility for.]
[Killed on 8 March 2005 in Chechnia]
Overall, he was the head
of the whole shebang. Of all Chechen terrorists. [Aslan Maskhadov, Soviet Army colonel. Appointed Deputy]
[Leader of Armed Forces of Ichkeria during the military]
[conflict in Chechnia. Commanded most terrorist]
[operations during the First Chechen War. In 1997, elected]
[president of Chechnia that he planned to turn into]
[an Islamic state. Same year, met with Boris Yeltsin]
[in Moscow to sign a peace treaty. After the start]
[of the Second Chechen War, held up in the mountains]
[with an armed squad. Condemned the Nord-Ost]
[hostage operation that Basaev claimed responsibility for.]
[Killed on 8 March 2005 in Chechnia]
They were supposed to… Shamil Basaev commanded them
as a military man, as a general. While Maskhadov had
political influence. – So he was like…
– Politician number one. Yes, he was the president
of Ichkeria. So we knew that
even if he didn’t give them a direct order, they would’ve at least
listened to him. I mean the terrorists
that captured the school. He had a representative,
Zakaev, who had already
fled to London by then. Zakaev was Maskhadov’s
official representative in Europe. That’s why Politkovskaya
would contact him. She knew him. Babitskiy was also someone
who could contact him or Basaev,
or other terrorists, which he did do when he did
his interview with… – Basaev.
– …with Basaev, yes. He could reach them. He had contacts
and everything. But they did manage
to reach Zakaev. Zakaev convinced
Maskhadov to come. Maskhadov named the conditions
for his trip to Beslan. It wasn’t Politkovskaya — she was
in a hospital in critical condition. It wasn’t Babitskiy — 
he’d been arrested. It wasn’t one of ours. It was Dzasohov, Aushev, and the Gutseriev
brothers who reached him. They talked to Zakaev, because they knew both
Zakaev and Maskhadov well. When I asked him,
“Who is your commander?” he replied, “Basaev.” I went,
“What about Maskhadov?” He said,
“Maskhadov is our president.” So I asked him,
“Would you follow his word?” Meaning, in my mind,
I thought, “Okay, Basaev ordered you
to occupy this school.” But knowing Maskhadov, I was convinced that he’d never
approve of this plan and we could involve Maskhadov
in defusing the situation. Very briefly: I understand that Basaev and
Maskhadov were both terrorists, but they often operated… Basaev often operated without
getting a go-ahead from Maskhadov? They always had
a complicated relationship. – You tried to contact Maskhadov?
– Yes. – Through Zakaev?
– Yes. What happened? Well, I had an idea. I told Dzasohov: “Aleksandr Sergeyevich,
let’s try and involve Maskhadov.” Besides, Dzasohov knew
Maskhadov too. We were all leaders
of North Caucasus. He was recognized
by the president. – Yeltsin gave him…
– You mean in Kremlin? …a plane and an armored Mercedes
for his inauguration. You’ve got his Yak-40 outside. And he gave him
an armored Mercedes. So everyone was
A-OK with him. But I knew him from earlier. So what did we do?
Whom did we need? Zakaev. Zakaev was in London. I told the generals on the committee,
“Give me Zakaev’s number. “I know you have it.” They did. We reached
his London number. Got voice mail. I recorded the message:
“Ahmed, it’s me. “I’ll call you back.” Then, in… I waited for about
90 minutes. I called. He picked up. I said, “You realize “that for what’s going
on Beslan, “the whole world
will hate you? “All of your “political goals are one thing.
Women and children are another.” He said, “I understand that.” I said, “Contact Maskhadov
and tell him to start acting.” He said, “We have a one-way channel.”
I said… You know? Afterward, I don’t know how
they got in touch, but I saw on the Internet
in the morning, this was on the Internet
on the third, Maskhadov’s statement that they don’t fight
with women and children, and he’s prepared. And? Dzasohov said he would
provide a corridor? Dzasohov couldn’t
provide a corridor. Only the federal forces
could provide a corridor. – Were the federal forces willing to..?
– I don’t know. I know that on the third,
the shooting started. I was certain that if… I think had Maskhadov
come to Beslan, the crisis could’ve
been resolved. There was immediate division
in Beslan into the official committee, which included all
North-Ossetian officials who didn’t even know
they were on it, they learned this
after the crisis, and the real commitee, which consisted of deputies of Head of FSB
Patrushev: Anisimov, Pronichev, Tihonov. I don’t know about Anisimov, but I know
for sure that Tihonov and Pronichev got Hero of Russia titles
for Nord-Ost. [Officially, 130 people died in the Dubrovka siege.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was 174. Most hostage deaths]
[were due to poisoning by sleeping gas that was pumped]
[into air filtration by state forces before the assault]
got Hero of Russia titles
for Nord-Ost. [Officially, 130 people died in the Dubrovka siege.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was 174. Most hostage deaths]
[were due to poisoning by sleeping gas that was pumped]
[into air filtration by state forces before the assault]
For pumping in gas,
poisoning the terrorists, [Officially, 130 people died in the Dubrovka siege.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was 174. Most hostage deaths]
[were due to poisoning by sleeping gas that was pumped]
[into air filtration by state forces before the assault]
shooting sleeping people,
and failing to save the hostages. [Officially, 130 people died in the Dubrovka siege.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was 174. Most hostage deaths]
[were due to poisoning by sleeping gas that was pumped]
[into air filtration by state forces before the assault]
These people were deciding
what would happen in Beslan [Officially, 130 people died in the Dubrovka siege.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was 174. Most hostage deaths]
[were due to poisoning by sleeping gas that was pumped]
[into air filtration by state forces before the assault] [Officially, 130 people died in the Dubrovka siege.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was 174. Most hostage deaths]
[were due to poisoning by sleeping gas that was pumped]
[into air filtration by state forces before the assault]
and what to do. From the get-go, all of their actions were aimed
at a brute-force solution, even though, again,
after scouting the school, they knew that the number
of victims would be enormous among the hostages
and among the Spetsnaz. And yet…
They reported these things. I believe a brute-force solution
was chosen after all. How did you try
to contact Maskhadov? Myself? I did. Yes. Gutseriev, Dzasohov,
and you did, right? We were spread around. Dzasohov contacted this bastard
scratching his beard down in London, Zakaev, and as I later learned,
he tried to contact Maskhadov through him. I don’t know
if Gutseriev did. But I’d known Maskhadov since back when he was
the official president of Chechnia. At one of our meetings,
I gave him a present, a tiny copy of Koran. And he carried it in here. We met a couple
of years later. He was still the official
president of Chechnia, and various officials
like Lebed talked to him. I asked him, “How’s my present?”
He took it out and said, “It’s always with me.” Also, so you know, I’ll explain to you later
why I… Separately. We, highlanders,
have our taboos, violating which you live in shame and you bite it
in even worse shame. like he did. When he was in trouble, we in Vladikavkaz we sheltered his wife
and his family, while he and his family
were in danger. When was this? This was around 1999. It’s our duty. If a hated enemy
hides in your home, you can’t hurt him. You can kill him elsewhere,
but in your home, you take care of him. Because he’s your guest. This happened too. But when they started writing
their stupid official notes, saying, “talk to Maskhadov,” I found a man in Baku named Ali, his official rep. Maskhadov had an office
over there. I found his phone number
and called him. I said, “Ali, this is
Taymuraz Mamsurov. “Your boss and I met in
such and such circumstances.” He said,
“Yes, he told me about you.” “Well, tell him “that tragedy is upon us,
and in his name “and in the name of Allah,
they’re killing people here.” By that time, they’d already killed
more than 20 people. He said, “Yes, will let him know.
Absolutely. “Be near your phone.
He’ll call you back.” From that moment
until the explosions, this cell phone was like the most precious thing
to an obsessed person. I was scared to blink out of fear
of missing the call. He didn’t call back. That’s Maskhadov for you. The dirtbag. That’s my story
about Maskhadov. So. What I don’t understand. Maskhadov was
the leader of all Chechen terrorists at the time. Some of the terrorists, Chechen, Ingush, and others, occupied a school. They contact Maskhadov
through Zakaev. And demand
that he does something. Yes. “Do something.” Why would he do anything, if it was done by his people? No. Not his. I doubt he had
any part in it, because Shamil Basaev acted
quite independently by that point. In fact, if we go four years in the past
prior to these events, and remember Basaev’s invasion
of Dagestan in 1999, [The Dagestan offensive was an invasion]
[of Shamil Basaev’s and Khattab’s troops]
[into Dagestan from 7 August until 14 August 1999.]
[De facto beginning of the Second Chechen War]
and remember Basaev’s invasion
of Dagestan in 1999, [The Dagestan offensive was an invasion]
[of Shamil Basaev’s and Khattab’s troops]
[into Dagestan from 7 August until 14 August 1999.]
[De facto beginning of the Second Chechen War]
this was done against
Maskhadov’s wishes. [The Dagestan offensive was an invasion]
[of Shamil Basaev’s and Khattab’s troops]
[into Dagestan from 7 August until 14 August 1999.]
[De facto beginning of the Second Chechen War]
Mashkadov was Chechnia’s
political leader. But not all attacks
were cleared with him? ALL attacks were exclusively decided on
and coordinated by Basaev and his surroundings,
which included Middle-Eastern Islamists
like Khattab. That’s the people he worked with.
If Maskhadov WAS involved, he was far from key. So Maskhadov could’ve
influenced the situation, after the fact of the capture. But to prevent it… I don’t believe he even knew
that this attack was in the works. But there’s another version: that Dzasohov talked to him,
and Maskhadov was willing
to come down. So Dzasohov took a few hours
to provide a corridor. Dzasohov never said this and he never talked
to Maskhadov! He talked to Zakaev! Zakaev promised that Maskhadov
would do something. He did nothing. Dzasohov said: “If Maskhadov decides
to come down here,” ’cause he needed to come over
or at least call these scumbags, “then we’ll guarantee
his security.” That’s it! You couldn’t say anything else. You don’t think Maskhadov
would’ve showed up? Of course not.
He didn’t even call ME back! What can you say
about a man, a Soviet Army colonel, whom I respected, who used to be
the president of the republic passed himself as this
great highlander and keeper of our traditions? Why didn’t he
call me then? After his assistant Ali said:
“I’ll reach him. He’ll call you.” To hide his trail,
he even said, “Although, it’s the dead of night
where he currently is.” I said: “Is it so hard
to wake him up? “They’re doing atrocities here
in his name.” And he didn’t call me back.
After that, Maskhadov is nobody to me. Just a nobody.
Alive or dead. They promised him
a corridor… No. He himself requested
a corridor to be able to… so they didn’t grab him near Beslan,
since he was a wanted criminal. – Yes.
– Terrorist… well, not number one. But maybe…
neither one or two. But someone the government
wanted to catch. He just wanted guarantees
that he’ll get to this school… Right. …and enter it. The he would… Those were
all the conditions he had. Right? Why didn’t it happen? Can you imagine if
Maskhadov had showed up and saved women and children
from that school? So…
“Our enemy CANNOT help us.” Yes. Our enemy cannot save
the children and become a hero. It’s twisted logic. I think the government is always
wrong when it comes to… Especially… It paints strength it’s
incapable of as weakness. It thinks that weakness is… that saving people is weakness;
that saving children is weakness. It has incredible ability
to manipulate information, which it demonstrated
right there in Beslan. It’s strength, to save people,
to save children. But they disagree. You meant that with their ability
to manipulate information, the could’ve let the enemy
save the children, – …and present it however they wanted.
– Yes, exactly. Then everyone…
I mean what kind of…
They could’ve… They could’ve shared it. They could’ve taken
all the glory. Although I find that appalling. They could’ve shrunk
Maskhadov’s apparent role… but saved the children. [DIANA] I was sitting facing the… looking at the windows. There was loud chatter.
People walking around.
Nobody cared anymore. Then in the middle of chatter,
I suddenly heard a loud noise. I turn around and I fall. I didn’t understand what happened.
I’m lying there. Then the second explosion. And after a while,
either a sister or mom, can’t remember, went:
“Diana, get up! Run! “Diana, get up!” This pulled me back
somewhat. I went, “I… I can’t.” It was maybe a couple of minutes
like that. I can’t remember much. I remember trying to get up,
to move a little. Couldn’t. How did they
carry you out? Mom tried to, but… No. She couldn’t. I was too heavy. [Diana’s mother and sisters survived]
[the siege with mild injuries]
She couldn’t. I was too heavy. [Diana’s mother and sisters survived]
[the siege with mild injuries] [Diana’s mother and sisters survived]
[the siege with mild injuries]
She dragged me. [Diana’s mother and sisters survived]
[the siege with mild injuries]
Over dead bodies. [Diana’s mother and sisters survived]
[the siege with mild injuries] The other girls were there too.
She kept them close, yes. Afterward, when the Spetsnaz
came in through exercise rooms, mom carried me towards them
and handed me to one of them. So when we were
reconstructing the events, one thing we
couldn’t understand was: – There was a shower of bullets
in every direction.
– Yes. Yet a bunch of people
somehow got out. How is it possible? I don’t know. It’s just, I don’t know,
blind luck? It’s like, some people… Some people got hit
by tens of shards. But they didn’t get
anything vital. I got a single shard. Something like that,
probably. [In 2005, Diana spent 5 months]
[in rehabilitation in Germany] Do you remember
your return to Beslan and your feelings about it? Yes. After seven months away,
I really missed home. The return itself, it was pretty stressful. ‘Cause all you think of in your time away is:
don’t break down. You have to hold on. You have to recover.
You have to do all these things. You come back, and like half a year later,
you face what happened. You come outside, and, like, this girl next door,
she’s gone. Your class gets together
and comes to visit, but… they’re not all there. And they kind of
got over it already. You need regular
rehabilitation, right? Yes. At least once a year. To stay in shape. Physically. Yes. What does it lead to? I mean, what do you need
staying in shape for? Because now,
fifteen years later, there’s no chance I’ll
get up and run anymore. Now, I need it to just maintain optimal
physical shape. The doctors would explain better.
There’s a thing called “spasticity.” [Spasticity is proneness to painful spasms.]
[Can develop after injuries and strokes]
It’s muscle tone. [Spasticity is proneness to painful spasms.]
[Can develop after injuries and strokes]
Taking a treatment course
in one specific clinic [Spasticity is proneness to painful spasms.]
[Can develop after injuries and strokes]
relieves my spasticity
for six months. relieves my spasticity
for six months. As a result,
without spasticity, you have better control
of your body, because it doesn’t
resist as much. Also, I have spinal
curvature problems. They straighten
my posture out. If you don’t do it,
what will happen? Then everything we achieved
previously may turn to nothing. I do exercise on my own. But it’s like working out at a gym on your own
compared to having a coach. You want someone
who knows you. Who can observe you and has the knowledge
to assist you or give advice. Forgive the bluntness, but if you don’t do
these things, you’ll just wither away? Yes. If I don’t exercise, if I don’t walk
for a couple of days, I notice that my muscles
start deflating. There’s not a lot of them
in the first place, but when even that
starts going away, it’s super apparent. How do you walk? With a walker, at home. It’s this four-..? Yes, the four-legged thing.
Usually, grannies use them. I heard from someone had you got to rehabilitation
in Germany sooner, you would’ve probably
walked on your own. If I had continued going
to that particular place, then maybe. I’m not saying
I would’ve for sure. Well, I went two years ago. Which is what,
thirteen years later, right? How was it?
Well, I got there. They obviously realized:
it’s been thirteen years. “Okay, we need to work
on your posture. “Get your spasticity in check.
We’ll do this, this, this…” This went on for a month. Two days before leaving… Their system is:
you come to a session, they tell you to walk around or try and do this or that
movement. At the end of the session,
they say, “Try now “if you can do it.” So at the end
of this session, we go to parallel bars, and they go,
“Walk back and forth.” I do that. He says,
“How do you feel?” I said, “It’s kinda… Oddly easy? “I barely use my arms.” He looks at me,
“Try and let go.” I take my hands off the bars
and keep standing. He looks at me like this.
“When did you learn that?”
I went, “I don’t know. Just now.” Of course it feels great when no one
expects anything anymore, and you get progress. To me, just standing up without
holding on to something, that’s… I couldn’t do that before. All of your trips abroad
are thanks to charities? Except for one time. We once asked
Taymuraz Mamsurov for help. This was in the last year
of his service as the head. So I once went for treatment to Germany
thanks to Taymuraz Dzambekovich. He funded the trip
through his foundation. What about the trip from
two years ago? This was a charity. Did you send a request
yourself or..? No. They somehow found me
themselves via Mothers of Beslan. Asked if I would go. Do you know how much
rehabilitation costs? Approximately. It’s twenty…
About €25,000 a month. Did you and your family envision
that the perfect scenario would be getting
€25,000 a year of funding for you to go
to rehabilitation? Initially, it had to be
more than a month. Back then, yeah.
At least two or three months. Did you ever ask yourself why you don’t receive
this support? Maybe because
“Russian rehabilitation centers
are just as good” or for some other reason? The first thing they
ask for is, yeah, to pick a cheaper
alternative in Russia. – But they’re not what you need?
– No. No, there WAS a rehabilitation
center in Moscow called Krita. It was really good.
Their treatment worked for me. We got good results. But it went bankrupt
and closed down. There was a couple other… We tried to find something
local a few times, but this treatment doesn’t work.
It doesn’t help me. And then you have this clinic
that does help. Obviously, after we tried a bunch of options
after Krita, only then we started
insisting on Germany. We never insisted prior. We always said,
“Okay, let’s check it out. “Let’s try this place.” Did you ever hold a grudge
against the state because you couldn’t go to Germany
every year? Well, anywhere.
To the best clinic. A clinic that helps you. Grudge?.. I’m not sure what you even say here. Do I want to have it?
Of course. But do I want..? In the future, if God forbid, something
like that happens again, I don’t want anyone to go through
what Fatia and I experienced and fight for basic things. I want that even more
right now. So that others get
what they need and dodge
what we went through. [Starting this year,]
[Diana works as an accountant] I work. It’s been six months
since I got the job. I work from home
as an accountant. How did this happen? – Judging by your Facebook,
you had trouble finding a job.
– Yes. I spent probably four years
looking for a job. There was a lot of
paperwork hassle, but it was like four years
looking for a job. Contract, no contract.
Through different charities and centers. Eventually,
this past December, in 2018, our current Health Care Minister, Gogichaev Tamerlan Kazbekovich, decided to meet with heavily injured
victims of the siege. While talking to him, I mentioned that
I couldn’t find a job. He didn’t comment it.
The meeting ended. He left. A week later, he called and said:
“Diana, someone wants to hire you. “You in?” So. That’s what happened. – You got a diploma in..?
– Yes, I have a diploma. I have a diploma from Moscow Institute
of Entrepreneurship and Law. Remote course. Yes, I’m an accountant. – How did you study?
– Remotely. From home, via Internet. Right. Did you have to be present
for entrance exams? How many times
did you fly to Moscow? No, not even once.
Internet for everything. – Right?
– They met me halfway. After I finished school,
further education was a problem. After all, this was 200…6? It wasn’t like now where even schools
offer remote learning. Back then, this was
a pretty big issue. What about hobbies? I checked your Facebook, and apparently, you watch
American late-night shows. – You like HBO.
– My favorites! Tell us! I love American talk shows. I’m a big Ellen DeGeneres fan. – For real?
– Yes. I love Ellen. – I mean she’s great!
– Totally. She’s really cool. Late-nights too, yeah. I started doing it
to practice my English. Films and TV series’, I can’t always… Like, I can’t watch True Detective in English. That language is too hard. Whereas late-night shows
are simpler, more relaxed. You watch and…
They’re really well made. Someone like Kimmel or Fallon. They’re really fun to watch. What do you like most?
Carpool Karaoke? – Or when they play children’s instruments?
– On James Corden?
– Yeah. No, on James Corden’s show,
certainly Carpool. All of his musical segments. On Kimmel, I like interviews. I like him as an interviewer. Fallon is weak in that sense. Fallon has lots of fun stuff too. Good games. While on Ellen,
I watch everything. Ellen is just… From her monologue
to the musical bit at the end. Watching her is always a blast. [While we were editing this episode,]
[the same charity that sent Diana to Germany]
[two years ago, got back to her and covered]
[a new rehabilitation course] [Why did the assault happen?] You also talked to your son
on the phone. They organized the call. Now I know
what it looked like, because the principal told me. They came up to my son,
took his hand, and led him out. Another teacher lady who saw this,
later told me that she went: “Zelim, “you’re walking
on broken glass barefoot.” He said:
“They’re going to kill me now anyway.
What’s the difference?” Kid’s ten years old. She remembered this
very well. They made
the principal call me. She talked to me.
There were no cell phones yet. Over a stationary phone. She said they’re all
in bad shape. I talked to her. It turned they then gave
the phone to my son. I didn’t know
I was talking to my son. They reminded me,
“This is your boy.” I said,
“Zelim, you’re a man…” He said, “Dad, tell them
to not storm the school.” The kid’s ten years old. [Mamsurov’s children, Zamira and Zelimhan, were injured,]
[but survived. Zamira is a dentist in Vladikavkaz.]
[Zelimhan graduated from Bauman]
[Moscow University in 2016]
Obviously, they told him to say this.
How would he know? [Mamsurov’s children, Zamira and Zelimhan, were injured,]
[but survived. Zamira is a dentist in Vladikavkaz.]
[Zelimhan graduated from Bauman]
[Moscow University in 2016] [Mamsurov’s children, Zamira and Zelimhan, were injured,]
[but survived. Zamira is a dentist in Vladikavkaz.]
[Zelimhan graduated from Bauman]
[Moscow University in 2016]
I said: “Zelim, you’re a man. [Mamsurov’s children, Zamira and Zelimhan, were injured,]
[but survived. Zamira is a dentist in Vladikavkaz.]
[Zelimhan graduated from Bauman]
[Moscow University in 2016]
“You’re sister is there.
Your family. Stay strong. [Mamsurov’s children, Zamira and Zelimhan, were injured,]
[but survived. Zamira is a dentist in Vladikavkaz.]
[Zelimhan graduated from Bauman]
[Moscow University in 2016]
“There will be no assault. If they try to, I’ll block the way and not let them.” “There will be no assault. If they try to, I’ll block the way and not let them.” I kept talking to him, but one of the terrorists had taken away
the phone, and they hung up. We talked about
negotiations. The state did negotiate
with the terrorists after all. On September 3, Zangionov arranged that… [Vitaliy Zangionov, FSB specialist]
[that negotiated with the terrorists]
Zangionov arranged that… [Vitaliy Zangionov, FSB specialist]
[that negotiated with the terrorists] [Vitaliy Zangionov, FSB specialist]
[that negotiated with the terrorists]
Or maybe Aushev arranged, and Zangionov
later confirmed this arrangement [*Ministry of Emergency Situations of Russia]
that our MChS* would come over, four people, to pick up the bodies of the men
the terrorists had killed of September 1. At that moment,
right after the arrival of the MChS vehicle, the explosions happened. “Good day, Zaur. What’s the situation like
near the school?” [3 September 2004]
“Good day, Zaur. What’s the situation like
near the school?” [3 September 2004] [3 September 2004]
“Hi. Something just exploded.” What were these explosions? – I understand this is the key…
– Yes. …to researching the assault and understanding
why so many people died. It IS the key. I spent many years of my life to find out
what truly happened and to prove it. But today, we can talk about it with clarity. Official version. At the time, at 1 PM, the terrorist
on the pedal… Here’s the gym.
Here, under a basketball hoop
is the terrorist with his foot on a pedal. The gym is lined
with explosives. One of the terrorists took his foot
off the pedal, and everything blew up. These were the first
explosions. The official version states that the terrorists immediately
started shooting the hostages, the running hostages’
backs. Our Spetsnaz rushed inside
the school to save the children [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists]
Our Spetsnaz rushed inside
the school to save the children [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists] [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists]
immediately. [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists] [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists]
And was killed. [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists] [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists]
This is not what happened at all. [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists] [OFFICIAL VERSION]
[The terrorists’ bombs go off in the gym]

[Surviving hostages start running out of the building.]
[The terrorists shoot them in the backs]

[Spetsnaz and civilian rescuers start saving the hostages,]
[while simultaneously fighting the terrorists]
When the MChS team drove up
to the school, When the MChS team drove up
to the school, the gym was fired at
from the buildings standing perpendicular
to the gym, the closest ones
on Shkolniy Backstreet, from the roofs of buildings
37 and 39, they fired, with a very small delay, shots from RPO-A and RShG. [RPO-A Shmel, “Rocket-Propelled Infantry Flamethrower”]
shots from RPO-A and RShG. [RPO-A Shmel, “Rocket-Propelled Infantry Flamethrower”]
RPO-A, also called Shmel. [RPO-A Shmel, “Rocket-Propelled Infantry Flamethrower”]
While RShG is Hand Assault Grenade. I might be fuzzy on that,
because I’m not a military person. [RShG, “Jet-propelled Assault Grenade”]
I might be fuzzy on that,
because I’m not a military person. [RShG, “Jet-propelled Assault Grenade”]
But specifically
its technical characteristics and its projectile could’ve created the destruction
under the gym’s window that was witnessed. This huge hole
with bricks spilled outside that the hostages
also ran out through. But here’s the important part
that destroyed the official version: the window, the hole with bricks outside — the gym, the outside — and an intact window sill with intact super thin
wooden sashes. This indicates? If what the official version said blew up
had blown up… By the way,
they changed it a lot. First it was a bottle,
then a makeshift bomb, then it was on a chair,
next to the wall, on the sill, under the hoop,
somewhere else… Then they moved it
altogether. The official version first said
the first explosion was here. After we’d proven the first
explosion was over there, they relocated
the original explosion, 16 or 20 meters away. Had one of the terrorists’
makeshift bombs blown up, the whole window
would’ve been… the thin wooden window sash
would’ve been torn into tiny pieces. This all comes down to
mathematical modeling of explosions. ‘Cause we didn’t notice it and
start exploring it immediately. It was all there
in the footage. We collected and studied
all the pictures. The key person studying them was a member
of the Federal Parliamentary Commission, the scientist Yuriy Savelyev, [Yuriy Savelyev, rocket designer and theorist.]
[Was part of the Federal Parliamentary Commission]
[investigating the crisis. Disagreed with the Commission’s]
[conclusions and wrote an alternative report based on]
[witness testimonies, forensic tests, and his own knowledge.]
[Report’s conclusions: original explosions were from firing]
[grenade launchers and flamethrowers at the school.]
[The tanks shelled the school with hostages still inside.]
[Number of terrorists was double the official report’s claims]
who was in a completely
different place than us, [Yuriy Savelyev, rocket designer and theorist.]
[Was part of the Federal Parliamentary Commission]
[investigating the crisis. Disagreed with the Commission’s]
[conclusions and wrote an alternative report based on]
[witness testimonies, forensic tests, and his own knowledge.]
[Report’s conclusions: original explosions were from firing]
[grenade launchers and flamethrowers at the school.]
[The tanks shelled the school with hostages still inside.]
[Number of terrorists was double the official report’s claims]
and our paths would’ve never
crossed if not for Beslan. [Yuriy Savelyev, rocket designer and theorist.]
[Was part of the Federal Parliamentary Commission]
[investigating the crisis. Disagreed with the Commission’s]
[conclusions and wrote an alternative report based on]
[witness testimonies, forensic tests, and his own knowledge.]
[Report’s conclusions: original explosions were from firing]
[grenade launchers and flamethrowers at the school.]
[The tanks shelled the school with hostages still inside.]
[Number of terrorists was double the official report’s claims]
He turned out to be a specialist and former
president at Petersburg’s Technical Uni. [Yuriy Savelyev, rocket designer and theorist.]
[Was part of the Federal Parliamentary Commission]
[investigating the crisis. Disagreed with the Commission’s]
[conclusions and wrote an alternative report based on]
[witness testimonies, forensic tests, and his own knowledge.]
[Report’s conclusions: original explosions were from firing]
[grenade launchers and flamethrowers at the school.]
[The tanks shelled the school with hostages still inside.]
[Number of terrorists was double the official report’s claims]
He noticed all these things, [Yuriy Savelyev, rocket designer and theorist.]
[Was part of the Federal Parliamentary Commission]
[investigating the crisis. Disagreed with the Commission’s]
[conclusions and wrote an alternative report based on]
[witness testimonies, forensic tests, and his own knowledge.]
[Report’s conclusions: original explosions were from firing]
[grenade launchers and flamethrowers at the school.]
[The tanks shelled the school with hostages still inside.]
[Number of terrorists was double the official report’s claims]
when we gradually started… when we gradually started… First, we found flamethrowers
on the rooftops. Then, we learned that locals, a lot of them too, this is all written testimony
of local Ossetian police forces, they brought round and brought up to the rooftops
to our holed up Spetsnaz, ’cause the school was surrounded, they brought said
weapons to them. They left behind
flamethrower cases. They found them.
There was a lot of them. Many locals took them
home as souvenirs. We slowly learned these things
little by little, because… because the key thing is: from testimonies
of 58th Army sappers, from testimonies
of hostages and firefighters, not a single one of the terrorists’
makeshift bombs in the school blew up — they didn’t blow up from detonation
the way they’re intended to. Everything blew up later,
after a while, from the fire. Yes. In 2005, in summer, I went to Beslan and talked to people who lost family
members in the school. One of them, Elbrus Tedtov, [Elbrus Tedtov, at the time of the crisis, was the]
[editor-in-chief of Right-Bank Life, a local newspaper.]
[Lost a son in the attack. During questioning, claimed]
[that the fire in the gym started from flamethrowers]
[and grenades fired by the military from the outside.]
[Former tanker. Counted 11 tank shots, with 8 fired]
[when many hostages were still inside]
told me about his investigation [Elbrus Tedtov, at the time of the crisis, was the]
[editor-in-chief of Right-Bank Life, a local newspaper.]
[Lost a son in the attack. During questioning, claimed]
[that the fire in the gym started from flamethrowers]
[and grenades fired by the military from the outside.]
[Former tanker. Counted 11 tank shots, with 8 fired]
[when many hostages were still inside]
that he conducted on his own. [Elbrus Tedtov, at the time of the crisis, was the]
[editor-in-chief of Right-Bank Life, a local newspaper.]
[Lost a son in the attack. During questioning, claimed]
[that the fire in the gym started from flamethrowers]
[and grenades fired by the military from the outside.]
[Former tanker. Counted 11 tank shots, with 8 fired]
[when many hostages were still inside]
He showed me the, [Elbrus Tedtov, at the time of the crisis, was the]
[editor-in-chief of Right-Bank Life, a local newspaper.]
[Lost a son in the attack. During questioning, claimed]
[that the fire in the gym started from flamethrowers]
[and grenades fired by the military from the outside.]
[Former tanker. Counted 11 tank shots, with 8 fired]
[when many hostages were still inside]
we walked around in the gym, [Elbrus Tedtov, at the time of the crisis, was the]
[editor-in-chief of Right-Bank Life, a local newspaper.]
[Lost a son in the attack. During questioning, claimed]
[that the fire in the gym started from flamethrowers]
[and grenades fired by the military from the outside.]
[Former tanker. Counted 11 tank shots, with 8 fired]
[when many hostages were still inside]
and he showed me [Elbrus Tedtov, at the time of the crisis, was the]
[editor-in-chief of Right-Bank Life, a local newspaper.]
[Lost a son in the attack. During questioning, claimed]
[that the fire in the gym started from flamethrowers]
[and grenades fired by the military from the outside.]
[Former tanker. Counted 11 tank shots, with 8 fired]
[when many hostages were still inside] [Elbrus Tedtov, at the time of the crisis, was the]
[editor-in-chief of Right-Bank Life, a local newspaper.]
[Lost a son in the attack. During questioning, claimed]
[that the fire in the gym started from flamethrowers]
[and grenades fired by the military from the outside.]
[Former tanker. Counted 11 tank shots, with 8 fired]
[when many hostages were still inside]
this attic window and the trajectory that, in his opinion,
the original flamethrower projectile traveled. So, according to his version, someone fired
a flamethrower from the roof of building 37 located right next
to the school, and the projectile entered
the attic window. And so the fire originated… It wasn’t even a fire first.
It was some sparks that led a fire. It started in the attic. So the first and
the second shots were – From the outside.
– Yes. The third explosion,
and this is now according to the Parliamentary Commission
in North Ossetia, [Two commissions investigated the crisis]
[Federal Parliamentary Commission
and Republican Commission]
[The Federal Parliamentary Commission believes]
[that the first two explosions occurred inside the school]
[Version of the Republican Commission: the explosions]
[were caused by shots fired from the outside]
to the Parliamentary Commission
in North Ossetia, [Two commissions investigated the crisis]
[Federal Parliamentary Commission
and Republican Commission]
[The Federal Parliamentary Commission believes]
[that the first two explosions occurred inside the school]
[Version of the Republican Commission: the explosions]
[were caused by shots fired from the outside]
the third explosion
was the results of this [Two commissions investigated the crisis]
[Federal Parliamentary Commission
and Republican Commission]
[The Federal Parliamentary Commission believes]
[that the first two explosions occurred inside the school]
[Version of the Republican Commission: the explosions]
[were caused by shots fired from the outside]
– Heat?
– …heat and initial shots, yes. [Two commissions investigated the crisis]
[Federal Parliamentary Commission
and Republican Commission]
[The Federal Parliamentary Commission believes]
[that the first two explosions occurred inside the school]
[Version of the Republican Commission: the explosions]
[were caused by shots fired from the outside]
The bomb attached
to the basketball hoop dropped. [Two commissions investigated the crisis]
[Federal Parliamentary Commission
and Republican Commission]
[The Federal Parliamentary Commission believes]
[that the first two explosions occurred inside the school]
[Version of the Republican Commission: the explosions]
[were caused by shots fired from the outside]
And so only the third explosion
was inside. Who fired the shots
from the outside? It’s impossible to find out
who exactly was positioned on the rooftops
of buildings 37, 39, and 41. No one was able
to find that out. The official investigation
most likely knows the names
of those people, but I couldn’t find
this information anywhere. But there are testimonies
from residents… I personally talked to
a resident of building 37, who told me that on the first day of the siege,
on September 1, they were all forced
out of the apartment building and Russian soldiers
went up to the roof. My version is this. It started with the explosion. The assault was in the works because professionals
have to be ready for it. But the fact that some forces
were still practicing outside of Beslan [Two response squads of Spetsnaz arrived at the school]
[only 40 minutes after the explosions. They had been]
[practicing on training grounds 30 km outside of Beslan]
indicates that the assault
was meant to happen later. [Two response squads of Spetsnaz arrived at the school]
[only 40 minutes after the explosions. They had been]
[practicing on training grounds 30 km outside of Beslan] [Two response squads of Spetsnaz arrived at the school]
[only 40 minutes after the explosions. They had been]
[practicing on training grounds 30 km outside of Beslan]
They gave ’em 72 hours.
They wrote, “You have 72 hours.” [Two response squads of Spetsnaz arrived at the school]
[only 40 minutes after the explosions. They had been]
[practicing on training grounds 30 km outside of Beslan]
72 hours hadn’t elapsed yet. There was still time
until night. There was an explosion. They were showing some
woman on TV addressing her husband
in their language, one of the scumbags
inside the school. They were watching it. She said: “You’re a man.
You know best what to do. “But you have children too.
Here are our children.” Tried to move him. I remember standing
there watching it. I thought it was a moronic idea. As soon as her speech was over,
we heard the explosion. I think her husband
saw the broadcast. Something
clicked in his head, and it hit the fan. But as a Beslanite,
you have to know the version that’s
very popular in Beslan. That that first explosion… That the first explosion
came from the outside. As a Beslanite, as an engineer,
as a witness, I don’t choose versions. I have a version, which I know
that it happened. There was an explosion
inside. It’s… Unlike you, for example, someone with many versions
to choose from, I don’t wish to choose. I know for certain
what happened. But you know that
Mothers of Beslan found cases of flamethrowers
on neighboring rooftops? Yes, this happened. But the original explosion
was in the gym. Shortly after,
another explosion occurred. After that, I ran to the gym and rushed inside, and found it
engulfed in flames. They started leading out children and other hostages at the rate
of at least 5 or 10 people. It was pandemonium. So, I don’t endorse
that version. It’s not even my version, bu I’m inclined to trust
this version, which states that the first two explosions
happened in the school gym, where they held
all the hostages, and those explosions
came from the outside, from the roof of the third,
farthest building. I endorse this version
because the investigating agency on the case,
the Public Prosecution, did not present proof to change our minds or convince in their version. I endorse this version
because there were lots
of witnesses in the gym, sane and understanding what’s
going on around them, who said that something flew into the gym
following a trajectory from that third roof, knocking in
the window transom, which was pretty sturdy. Some object flew in. This lasted tenths
of a second. The was whistling, followed by a clap and a fireball. After that,
everything else unfolded. It all went up upward, setting the roof on fire. Another reason I endorse this version is because of the investigation
Yuriy Savelyev conducted. He brought specialists. Together, we worked out
a diagram that showed where every single
hostage was in the gym: exactly who sat where
and next to whom. We cross-referenced
everything. We found where
every single person was. Because everyone
knew each other. The investigation led
by Yuriy Petrovich, professor of Burning and Explosion
Processes Department, a rare specialist in Russia, confirmed that the trajectory
of the explosion… the trajectory of the projectile indicated launch
from the nearby rooftop. The Federation Council did not include
his inversion into their report. They didn’t even let him speak during
hearings in the Federation Council. But Yuriy Petrovich
wrote an open letter… No, it wasn’t open. He wrote a personal letter to
the President of the Russian Federation. He laid out everything
in his report. He later even published
four books on the investigation
of the Beslan crisis. They contain everything. This led to absolutely nothing. And so this is the only version
I believe. And not just me. – There are two versions.
– Yes. The official one, that terrorists detonated
a makeshift bomb inside the school. A terrorist’s foot slipped off the pedal
or something and it blew up. The other, so-called
“people’s version,” endorsed by people
living in Beslan, is that someone fired
a flamethrower at the school. Which one
do you believe more? You see, I… I could support either. But as a military man and
especially ex-president, I can’t claim anything. I don’t know for certain
what happened. I saw clouds of smoke after the explosion. ‘Cause there were poplars
and the school behind them. When they went to pick up the bodies,
the smoke and the gunfire started. It’s hard to tell
what happened there. There was commission
from the Federation Council. There was one opinion
and another opinion. You have to ask the people
that were inside. Yes, 333 people died, but there are survivors.
They should tell what happened. I can’t tell.
I may endorse one, but if I’m wrong? I’m not in a position to say
that either version is definitely true. How could it explode? When I entered the school,
I saw the basketball backboard. There was something
attached to it. That’s what I saw. I looked around. There was perimeter of armed
terrorists in masks. I don’t know their setup. But foot on a pedal
sounds unlikely, because your leg could get tired,
and you’d blow up. That’s a little questionable. When they say that they detonated their
makeshift bombs, that the explosion
was inside, I don’t believe that either. Because on the third, when all the terrorists
were taken care of and when even the civilians… The fighting was over. They started bringing out
the bodies from the gym. And there was
a lot of bodies, including my child. [There were two of Susanna Dudieva’s children]
[among the hostages, son Zaur and daughter Zalina.]
[Zaur was killed]
They only started removing
them the next day. [There were two of Susanna Dudieva’s children]
[among the hostages, son Zaur and daughter Zalina.]
[Zaur was killed]
Well, on the third, [There were two of Susanna Dudieva’s children]
[among the hostages, son Zaur and daughter Zalina.]
[Zaur was killed] [There were two of Susanna Dudieva’s children]
[among the hostages, son Zaur and daughter Zalina.]
[Zaur was killed]
sappers of the 58th Army
Gagloev and Nabiev brought out
the makeshift bombs. More than thirty bombs. Can’t remember exactly now. Someone asked, “What’s this?”
They said, “It’s from the gym. “Didn’t detonate.” When someone asked, “What if it did?” They said:
“It would’ve leveled the place. “To the ground.” Then they asked them: “What blew up then?
From the outside?” They said,
“Well, it must’ve been.” This was on September 3, when everyone was telling
everything they saw. They told what they saw. Later, in court, they tried to deny
they ever said it, but it was too late,
although they tried. [Third one was hanging. That’s out what we saw.] [Sappers’ testimony, 3 September 2004]
[We took ’em down.] [Sappers’ testimony, 3 September 2004]
[We couldn’t take down the third one, ’cause it was]
[3.5 meters above ground. Too high a jump] [Sappers’ testimony, 3 September 2004]
[Were they between themselves..?] [Sappers’ testimony, 3 September 2004]
They weren’t supposed to…
They were all connected. [They weren’t supposed to…]
[They were all connected.] [- What kind of connection?]
[- Shit knows what kind. It was a total mess.] [But I can tell you it was all connected] [Maybe several detonation points?]
[Like, eight wires per charge] [You can’t really look closely under the shot] [I got a report about two explosions:]
[hole in the wall… they started running] [- The hole was not from this explosion.]
[- No?] [Looks like someone took a shot.]
[It wasn’t this explosion] [Hole in the wall, no. If one of these]
[blew up inside the room…] [Look at the number of ball bearings.]
[Right after the…] [After the second explosion they talk about,] [we started pulling out the children,]
[seemingly no one was killed by shrapnel] (Unintelligible) [These shards from this…] [So there was no explosion inside, huh?] Why doesn’t the state
accept this version then? Why do they insist that
the explosion occurred inside because of the terrorists’
actions? There’s a tradition in this country
to not punish people. It’s not in vogue. Examining mistakes is also
not really in vogue here. Mistake analysis is in
a very bad place. At the same time,
our country has a high level of this sort of bureaucratic solidarity. Which is why I also blame people,
who allowed this crisis to happen. The people who were meant
to provide security. None of them weren’t punished
or even chided. They all got promoted
in rank. Even the head of the Federal Security Service
of the district where this happened. The office of
the Federal Security Service is 100 meters
from School Number One. 100 meters! You saw it.
Probably closer even. [Police station →]
[← School]
Police station
is 50 meters away. [Police station →]
[← School]
And they didn’t punish anyone. And they didn’t punish anyone. Even Gaydenko, the head
of the Federal Service in the district. [Oleg Gaydenko became the head of anti-terrorist]
[operations in North Ossetia. Worked for FSB in Moscow.]
[Was the head of FSB in Saratov Oblast and Bashkiria]
Even Gaydenko, the head
of the Federal Service in the district. [Oleg Gaydenko became the head of anti-terrorist]
[operations in North Ossetia. Worked for FSB in Moscow.]
[Was the head of FSB in Saratov Oblast and Bashkiria]
They gave him a promotion. [Oleg Gaydenko became the head of anti-terrorist]
[operations in North Ossetia. Worked for FSB in Moscow.]
[Was the head of FSB in Saratov Oblast and Bashkiria]
He’s now a general. [Oleg Gaydenko became the head of anti-terrorist]
[operations in North Ossetia. Worked for FSB in Moscow.]
[Was the head of FSB in Saratov Oblast and Bashkiria] [Oleg Gaydenko became the head of anti-terrorist]
[operations in North Ossetia. Worked for FSB in Moscow.]
[Was the head of FSB in Saratov Oblast and Bashkiria]
Yes. Same with Andreyev. [Valeriy Andreyev became lieutenant general and]
[deputy director of FSB Academy in Moscow]
Andreyev was in the Federal Security Service
leadership in the republic. [Valeriy Andreyev became lieutenant general and]
[deputy director of FSB Academy in Moscow]
They promoted him too. Then Minister of Internal Affairs
Dzantiev resigned. Everyone else,
even those circumstantially related
to the events in Beslan, they all got promoted
in rank. And that’s the worst part. When you don’t do
mistake analysis, these generals,
these armchair generals, who just sit around, they get used
to total impunity. We always said: we’re not bloodthirsty. We’re not asking you to put them
in jail or execute them. At least announce
the names and bodies that allowed this
crisis to happen, that allowed so many victims among both civilians, children and adults,
the hostages, and special service
operatives. I think the assault
would’ve happened anyway. They were gearing to attack
on the night of the fourth. But it happened
ahead of schedule, before they planned, exactly an hour
after Dzasohov spoke before the people in
Beslan’ Palace of Culture and said,
“A negotiator is coming. “A very important person
will come to negotiate.” – Wait, he told the people that..?
– Yes, at 12 PM. – By that person he meant Maskhadov?
– I believe so. Certainly not Aslahanov
who landed at 5 PM and wasn’t really… I believe he meant
Maskhadov. I’m sure of it. I think originally, they wanted to stage it like it was
the terrorists who blew up the school to blame them for
the start of the assault. ‘Cause they knew that there were
no other solutions to this problem, and yet they had to act. So it’s either negotiations, lengthy, exhausting, and boring, with a chance that
Maskhadov wins too. ‘Cause, you know? Or you decisively
rub the terrorists out. Hostages are not a factor
in this country. If you’re a hostage… Everyone should remember this.
This never went away. Yes, we haven’t had attacks
this bad for a while now. Like Nord-Ost or Beslan. But everyone should keep in mind that
if you become a hostage in this country, the constitution
ceases to apply to you. You lose the right to live. No one will respect it. I talked to pretty much all the journalist
from Novaya Gazeta from back then. I gave interviews.
I never dodged anyone. I went on Rain TV, Echo of Moscow Station. Talked to Novaya Gazeta
journalists. Top Secret show. They all come with different
versions and things. But you know,
this is all… Maybe some people
thought like that. I know that when our community
was discussing our course of action, we would’ve done anything. Not just allow Maskhadov. Even if Devil himself
had shown up. This was about
saving children. And so all these
complicated versions that the journalists
come up with, I mean, if they know this
about someone for certain, God is their judge. Taymuraz Dzambekovich,
you’re talking about yourself, right? – That you would’ve?
– I’m talking… Do you think the Russian government
was equally willing to do anything? How should I know?
First off, if people were talking
with Zakaev, the government
must have known that. But then it would’ve cut
all negotiation options. So you believe that Putin
would’ve allowed – …the Devil and Maskhadov..?
– I think so. 100%. I believe the assault was
initiated from the outside. I believe… I don’t know who did that. But they were obviously
some Russian servicemen. I don’t know which branch. They were motivated to initiate
the assault from the outside, because this was day three. People in the school were
sitting in stuffy heat. No water, no food. Everyone panicked. There were dead bodies,
both inside and outside. And of course, I think had they lingered
any longer, the patience of
the families outside… Keep in mind, these were armed man, local militia. The families’ patience
could’ve given way. There WERE sentiments
in the crowd such as: “Let’s solve this issue ourselves. “Let’s go inside ourselves.” What are your thoughts
about the version that the assault started
solely because they couldn’t let
Maskhadov show up and they couldn’t let a terrorist,
an enemy of Russia, to save our children? This version exists. And it’s possible. But I remember that the gunfire started
when they went to pick up the bodies. I believe they messed it up
somehow. Which led to gunfire. If they didn’t try anything funny
and just picked up the bodies, we could’ve continued
negotiating and so on. But what exactly happened during
extraction is a mystery to me. When the shooting started,
it was pretty much over. Also, this guy… He called the… The “press secretary” called Gutseriev
and said, “Were under attack.” We went, “No one’s attacking you.”
He says, “We’re under attack!” He was on the phone.
I said, “Who’s attacking?” “He says they’re under attack.”
“But no one’s attacking them.” He said, “We’re under attack!
You wanna play rough?” How did he say?
“Well, say hello to the president of Russia.” He hung up
and didn’t contact us again. How do you feel about the version
that our guys launched the assault because Maskhadov was
ready to intervene. Not everyone believes this version.
What do you think? I don’t have any grounds or proof
to believe otherwise. There’s no proof
to the contrary. Had there been
a proper investigation… An investigation done by
specialists who will tell you: “This, and this, and this.
This is true. This isn’t.” From what I learned
from the press, from what I learned
from the people, from what we all know, I’m inclined to believe it. Let them convince
me otherwise. Let them present facts
that that’s not what happened. Currently, I do believe that Maskhadov
was going to come down. I didn’t care who would show up. Anyone! They captured our children.
Saving them was all that mattered. Negotiating demands and everything
else was second-rate to that. Save them. You let this happen. Now, you have to save them
in any way you can. Tanks started shelling
the school after… Not exactly.
Here’s what happened. Tanks did shoot, but they shot dummy shells,
not explosive ones. If a tank had shot a real shell, half the the building
would’ve been gone. But tanks weren’t involved
in the assault. They mostly fired flamethrowers
and grenade launchers. The school was shelled
with heavy artillery. Yes. A tank shot dummy shells, according to the official
commission. A dummy shell
is a solid shot, right? Yes, it’s a shell
that doesn’t explode. It only penetrates and knocks down
walls to create access. – Do you believe that they only used dummies?
– I do, because I drove a T-72 at a tank range near Dobele in Latvia. Had they shot a real shell,
half the school would’ve been gone. But the flamethrower
fire was real? I didn’t see that.
I didn’t see the flamethrowers. But the cases on the roof? Yes, there were cases.
And they did fire ’em. But I didn’t see it. So I don’t know
when they started firing. [MARINA] The explosion… [Marina Duchko]
[25 years old at the time of the crisis]
[Worked at a gas station before the attack.]
[Came to school with her son, younger sister, and mother] [Marina Duchko]
[25 years old at the time of the crisis]
[Worked at a gas station before the attack.]
[Came to school with her son, younger sister, and mother]
I was injured
in the first explosion. [Marina Duchko]
[25 years old at the time of the crisis]
[Worked at a gas station before the attack.]
[Came to school with her son, younger sister, and mother] I didn’t feel my legs
afterward. I didn’t feel anything.
It was like I floated and fell down. I didn’t feel my legs
afterward. They were getting survivors
up on their feet and retreating to the cafeteria. To shield themselves. Mom took the kids and left.
I stayed behind. How did your mother leave? – Didn’t she try to pull you out?
– Yes, she tried to.
– What happened? She tried to get me up,
I said, “Go alone. Save the children.” She left. I stayed behind. This terrorist crawled up to me,
when they chased everyone out, “Get up.”
“I can’t.” He turned me on my stomach:
“Crawl to the windows. “It’s safer there.” – And you crawled?
– As best as I could. What exactly happened?
What got damaged? A fragment hit the spine. A piece of a screw. Or piece of wire. A small bit. Got lodged in the spine. In the ribs. – Surgeons in Moscow pulled it out?
– Yes. But the spine
was already damaged? They said the nerve
was intact, because my ribs
stopped the fragment. – Right. So what did it mean?
– Apparently, the nerve got bruised. He said the spinal cord
was intact. – What did it mean? That..?
– They said, “You’ll walk. “It’ll take time.” That’s a lot of time! – They told you you’ll walk?
– Yes. – What did you have to do to..?
– He said, “You’re fine. The surgery
was successful. “You’ll walk, but you need
rehabilitation. “You have to wait until
the bruising goes away. “You know? “Quality rehabilitation.” – And did you get it?
No. – Why?
– You know… We don’t have
quality rehabilitation. But you got something? I did, but… First time was in Piatigorsk. Then in Samara. Then in Crimea. No. After the surgery,
I was in Moscow Oblast. In Goluboy sanatorium. Then Piatigorsk, Samara, and Crimea. That’s it. – Did those courses help at all?
– Nada. Like flogging a dead horse. Nothing helps. Massage and exercising
don’t help either. No improvements at all. When we were doing
preliminary research into how every victim
of Beslan lives, I hope this
doesn’t offend you, but about you, they said:
“Desperately in need.” Did they lie? Well, we’re all in need. I need quality rehabilitation. While in terms of
needing money… You can make it. I sell violets. Been growing
for a year now. Started a year ago.
I grow them and then,
through Internet… Upload it to Instagram, and… – And people buy them?
– Yes. Excuse my ignorance, but can’t you
buy violets in a shop? You can. But various delicate, curly cultivars,
you can only get from someone who
specializes in violets. Here are the leaves. This is what I
started with a year ago. I planted them.
They took root. Then repotted them. I repotted little ones.
They got this big. Got it. But these ones
won’t grow big. They’re like… miniature. – So it grows up and produces
this big clump on top?
– Yes. Like that. Why isn’t it there now? It finished blooming
recently. Got it. How long does it
stay normally? A couple of weeks. So I turned small leaves
into these big plants. But you sell the leaves, right? For now, yes. Where did you get the idea? I got some leaves
from a friend. She loves violets too. I planted those.
Later, went online and bought some cultivars. She has “grandma’s violets”
as they call them. Grandma’s violets? Blue, pink. I bought white,
burgundy, pink, dark blue — all kinds. – So one leaf costs 100 rubles.
– Yes. You’re in Beslan. Someone buys a leaf.
How do you ship it? – Envelope and mail it?
– No. I put it in a baggie
or a zip bag with a wet cotton pad
on the stem. Then I bag it and put
the whole order in a box. And mail it. What was the biggest
order? Ten. Fifteen. – Wow. So it’s 1000, 1500 rubles.
– Yes. Watering them and looking
at them is very calming. [You can order violets from Marina Duchko]
[through her Instagram @mari_fialochka]
Watering them and looking
at them is very calming. [You can order violets from Marina Duchko]
[through her Instagram @mari_fialochka] [You can order violets from Marina Duchko]
[through her Instagram @mari_fialochka]
I like spending time
with them. [You can order violets from Marina Duchko]
[through her Instagram @mari_fialochka] [You can order violets from Marina Duchko]
[through her Instagram @mari_fialochka]
Even when I wheel inside in the morning
to check which ones are blooming
or look healthy. Even when I wheel inside in the morning
to check which ones are blooming
or look healthy. When they’re sick,
I’ll treat them, cut off afflicted bits. – They’re basically like your friends.
– Yes. It’s nice when they
start blooming. It’s all covered in flowers. How does the state
treat you? How did it help you
after what happened? Well, they wired
financial aid at first. [*Russian Social Insurance Fund]
FSS* provided two diapers
and a cloth. They also provide
wheelchairs every four or six years. An anti-bedsore mattress. The state provides
all of that? Yes. When mother
writes them a request that I need this,
and this, and that, then they provide things.
They don’t do it themselves. But if you request,
they do it at once? Yes, you write to them,
wait a bit, and they provide. This sounds reasonable.
They don’t know when you need
new ones. Yes. When you demand,
they provide. Also, we met with Bitarov [Viacheslav Bitarov]
[Head of North Ossetia since 2016]
and asked for a wheelchair.
He transferred the funds, [Viacheslav Bitarov]
[Head of North Ossetia since 2016]
I ordered one from Crimea, and they sent me a scooter. Mom helps me on it,
I turn the key, and drive out. – Electric?
– Yes. Batteries under the seat. Charges from an outlet. What’s the fastest you drove?
Does it have a speedometer? It has ten speeds. Ten speeds?
Ever drove on the tenth? – All the time.
– On the tenth?
– Yes. That’s some highlander
driving. I remember driving to the market
with mother for the first time. My brother drove her. While they were… It’s probably what?
Like, six kilometers to the market? In the time they drove
to our street, I got here on this thing
simultaneously. – Six kilometers?!
– Yeah. What do you watch on TV? TV series’. Got a favorite? Favorite? The Dog. – The Dog?
– The Dog. It’s on NTV Channel. Yes. – Who’s that on your desktop?
– Panfilov. Who is he? – The protagonist.
– On The Dog?
– Yes. You said you don’t have rehabilitation,
but do you go to any sanatoriums
or something? Well, two years ago,
I went to Crimea. Therapy and electrotherapy. I returned after probably nine months,
they gave me a paid trip, but without the treatment
I got before. Why? They weren’t part
of the package. They raised the prices, but the package still cost, say, 60,000,
so they cut the treatment out. We had to pay for some
of the procedures ourselves. The package included
just three massages. – A therapeutic trip without treatment?
– Yes.
– What’s the point then? That’s what they give us.
Appearance of treatment. They paid for a trip. The lady took it.
Got healthier, relaxed. But in reality,
there’s no treatment. The doctor asked me: “Do you want all three
massages on one leg? “Or do we split ’em
between the two?” So we paid for extra
seven massages. How big is your pension? Around 13,000*.
[*~$200 in September of 2019] Only disability.
I don’t get employment pension. – Wait, so how much money do you get
from the state? Just the 13,000?
– Yes. – And case-by-case things upon request
like the wheelchair?
– Yes. Then they aid. – Do you need anything else
besides rehabilitation?
– No. Only quality rehabilitation. I heard your mom
took out a loan. She told us between shots. We’ll handle it. How are you going to handle it
with a 13,000-ruble pension? I get a pension. Mom does too.
My son works. [Marina’s mother, son, and sister survived the crisis]
[with burns and fragment wounds]
I get a pension. Mom does too.
My son works. [Marina’s mother, son, and sister survived the crisis]
[with burns and fragment wounds]
– Slow and steady.
– Big loan? [Marina’s mother, son, and sister survived the crisis]
[with burns and fragment wounds] [Marina’s mother, son, and sister survived the crisis]
[with burns and fragment wounds]
– Not really.
– How big? [Marina’s mother, son, and sister survived the crisis]
[with burns and fragment wounds]
I’m not telling. I’m not telling. Why did you take it out? To repair the yard. To make wheeling around
more even. Wheels used to get stuck
in all the holes. – You had holes?
– Dog’s a digger. You got your own
The Dog show, huh? [While we were editing this episode, our friends repaid]
[Marina’s loan and wired an extra 550,000 rubles to her.]
[If you too wish to help, the instructions]
[are in the description] [Who was saving the hostages?] Are our Spetsnaz fighters
heroes? Yes. Yes. Definitely. Spetsnaz fighter Andrey Turkin [Andrey Turkin was a lieutenant of Vimpel Spetsnaz squad.]
[During the assault, was the first to reach the cafeteria where]
[the terrorists retreated with hostages from the gym.]
[Killed a terrorist and shielded a 17-year-old]
[Nadezhda Badoeva and several children with his body]
[when another terrorist threw a grenade.]
[Was killed immediately. Andrey Turkin was 28]
Spetsnaz fighter Andrey Turkin [Andrey Turkin was a lieutenant of Vimpel Spetsnaz squad.]
[During the assault, was the first to reach the cafeteria where]
[the terrorists retreated with hostages from the gym.]
[Killed a terrorist and shielded a 17-year-old]
[Nadezhda Badoeva and several children with his body]
[when another terrorist threw a grenade.]
[Was killed immediately. Andrey Turkin was 28] [Andrey Turkin was a lieutenant of Vimpel Spetsnaz squad.]
[During the assault, was the first to reach the cafeteria where]
[the terrorists retreated with hostages from the gym.]
[Killed a terrorist and shielded a 17-year-old]
[Nadezhda Badoeva and several children with his body]
[when another terrorist threw a grenade.]
[Was killed immediately. Andrey Turkin was 28]
threw himself on a grenade
to protect the hostages, [Andrey Turkin was a lieutenant of Vimpel Spetsnaz squad.]
[During the assault, was the first to reach the cafeteria where]
[the terrorists retreated with hostages from the gym.]
[Killed a terrorist and shielded a 17-year-old]
[Nadezhda Badoeva and several children with his body]
[when another terrorist threw a grenade.]
[Was killed immediately. Andrey Turkin was 28]
and it blew up
under him. [Andrey Turkin was a lieutenant of Vimpel Spetsnaz squad.]
[During the assault, was the first to reach the cafeteria where]
[the terrorists retreated with hostages from the gym.]
[Killed a terrorist and shielded a 17-year-old]
[Nadezhda Badoeva and several children with his body]
[when another terrorist threw a grenade.]
[Was killed immediately. Andrey Turkin was 28] [Andrey Turkin was a lieutenant of Vimpel Spetsnaz squad.]
[During the assault, was the first to reach the cafeteria where]
[the terrorists retreated with hostages from the gym.]
[Killed a terrorist and shielded a 17-year-old]
[Nadezhda Badoeva and several children with his body]
[when another terrorist threw a grenade.]
[Was killed immediately. Andrey Turkin was 28]
A grenade thrown
by the terrorists. [Andrey Turkin was a lieutenant of Vimpel Spetsnaz squad.]
[During the assault, was the first to reach the cafeteria where]
[the terrorists retreated with hostages from the gym.]
[Killed a terrorist and shielded a 17-year-old]
[Nadezhda Badoeva and several children with his body]
[when another terrorist threw a grenade.]
[Was killed immediately. Andrey Turkin was 28]
Razumovskiy too was killed
inside the school. [Dmitriy Razumovskiy was a lt. colonel of Vympel]
[Spetsnaz squad. Commanded the assault team]
[in Beslan and pointed to terrorist gunner positions]
[to other assault fighters. Killed by a sniper]
[in the school’s courtyard. Dmitriy Razumovskiy was 36]
Razumovskiy too was killed
inside the school. [Dmitriy Razumovskiy was a lt. colonel of Vympel]
[Spetsnaz squad. Commanded the assault team]
[in Beslan and pointed to terrorist gunner positions]
[to other assault fighters. Killed by a sniper]
[in the school’s courtyard. Dmitriy Razumovskiy was 36]
You probably saw the monument
to him near the school. [Dmitriy Razumovskiy was a lt. colonel of Vympel]
[Spetsnaz squad. Commanded the assault team]
[in Beslan and pointed to terrorist gunner positions]
[to other assault fighters. Killed by a sniper]
[in the school’s courtyard. Dmitriy Razumovskiy was 36] [Dmitriy Razumovskiy was a lt. colonel of Vympel]
[Spetsnaz squad. Commanded the assault team]
[in Beslan and pointed to terrorist gunner positions]
[to other assault fighters. Killed by a sniper]
[in the school’s courtyard. Dmitriy Razumovskiy was 36]
No doubt in my mind that
these fighters were heroes. [Dmitriy Razumovskiy was a lt. colonel of Vympel]
[Spetsnaz squad. Commanded the assault team]
[in Beslan and pointed to terrorist gunner positions]
[to other assault fighters. Killed by a sniper]
[in the school’s courtyard. Dmitriy Razumovskiy was 36]
Those who went inside. [Dmitriy Razumovskiy was a lt. colonel of Vympel]
[Spetsnaz squad. Commanded the assault team]
[in Beslan and pointed to terrorist gunner positions]
[to other assault fighters. Killed by a sniper]
[in the school’s courtyard. Dmitriy Razumovskiy was 36]
I don’t think that these people
initiated the assault. I don’t think that these people
initiated the assault. Are the Spetsnaz
fighters heroes? They were following orders
and sacrificed their lives. Even though in my opinion,
the orders were criminal. Had I been a Spetsnaz fighter in this situation,
I would’ve refused to shoot. But you wouldn’t have been
in the Spetsnaz then. Yes. I’m not a soldier.
I’m a journalist. So they followed orders
at the cost of their lives. They were huge losses for Alpha
and Vympel, especially Vympel. They never suffered
losses this bad. [In the Beslan school assault, ten Alpha and Vympel]
[soldiers were killed. More than in any other Russian]
[Spetsnaz operation. Additionally, two MChS workers,]
[a policeman, and six civilian rescuers were killed]
They never suffered
losses this bad. [In the Beslan school assault, ten Alpha and Vympel]
[soldiers were killed. More than in any other Russian]
[Spetsnaz operation. Additionally, two MChS workers,]
[a policeman, and six civilian rescuers were killed]
They’d never lost
so many people. [In the Beslan school assault, ten Alpha and Vympel]
[soldiers were killed. More than in any other Russian]
[Spetsnaz operation. Additionally, two MChS workers,]
[a policeman, and six civilian rescuers were killed]
This was the first time
in all of their history. [In the Beslan school assault, ten Alpha and Vympel]
[soldiers were killed. More than in any other Russian]
[Spetsnaz operation. Additionally, two MChS workers,]
[a policeman, and six civilian rescuers were killed] [In the Beslan school assault, ten Alpha and Vympel]
[soldiers were killed. More than in any other Russian]
[Spetsnaz operation. Additionally, two MChS workers,]
[a policeman, and six civilian rescuers were killed]
It means they had predicted
massive casualties [In the Beslan school assault, ten Alpha and Vympel]
[soldiers were killed. More than in any other Russian]
[Spetsnaz operation. Additionally, two MChS workers,]
[a policeman, and six civilian rescuers were killed]
among both hostages
and the Spetsnaz. Because an offensive with no casualties
in that environment was very difficult. Is it true that they
weren’t wearing vests? [One of the theories:]
[The assault was so sudden that some of the fighters]
[went inside the school without bulletproof vests]
They were all wearing vests. [One of the theories:]
[The assault was so sudden that some of the fighters]
[went inside the school without bulletproof vests]
We have medical reports
on all Spetsnaz fighters. [One of the theories:]
[The assault was so sudden that some of the fighters]
[went inside the school without bulletproof vests]
They all wore vests. This theory probably came
from a civilian, because it’s a bit offensive. Had the explosions
even been a surprise, our Spetsnaz spent three days in full combat gear
guarding the school. They never took
their vests off. They didn’t take breaks. They… They were carrying out
their combat mission. Regardless of its nature. They’re professionals. Some of the best professionals
in the country. Don’t offend them.
They all wore vests. Because they knew their effectiveness
in the assault depended on it. I know that Turkin
threw himself on a grenade. They knocked down the grate
in the cafeteria. The iron grate. They knocked it down
with a tank. Spetsnaz fighters immediately
started pouring inside. Zalina told me, “In that moment, we felt
that someone cared about us “and that we weren’t alone.” This fighter was standing… He rushed inside
and stood on a metal table. And something like ten children ran up
to him, shouting: “Daddy! Daddy!” They grabbed his boot
so firmly that he couldn’t move. They were shooting
from over there. She said,
“I saw them latching onto his leg, “some of them dropping down, “because of the firefight.” And she said, “Another one rushed in. “First one dropped to the floor,
just so that the children stay down too.” The other one covered them. They were all heroes. I know Loskov
was very young. [Oleg Loskov was a praporshik of Alpha Spetsnaz squad.]
[Fought in the Second Chechen War. In Beslan,]
[got into a firefight with four terrorists running to the exit,]
[hiding behind hostages. Killed by a burst of rile fire.]
[Managed to lead several children to safety.]
[Oleg Loskov was 23]
I know Loskov
was very young. [Oleg Loskov was a praporshik of Alpha Spetsnaz squad.]
[Fought in the Second Chechen War. In Beslan,]
[got into a firefight with four terrorists running to the exit,]
[hiding behind hostages. Killed by a burst of rile fire.]
[Managed to lead several children to safety.]
[Oleg Loskov was 23]
They showed me [Oleg Loskov was a praporshik of Alpha Spetsnaz squad.]
[Fought in the Second Chechen War. In Beslan,]
[got into a firefight with four terrorists running to the exit,]
[hiding behind hostages. Killed by a burst of rile fire.]
[Managed to lead several children to safety.]
[Oleg Loskov was 23]
they’d built a memorial
in his village. [Oleg Loskov was a praporshik of Alpha Spetsnaz squad.]
[Fought in the Second Chechen War. In Beslan,]
[got into a firefight with four terrorists running to the exit,]
[hiding behind hostages. Killed by a burst of rile fire.]
[Managed to lead several children to safety.]
[Oleg Loskov was 23] [Oleg Loskov was a praporshik of Alpha Spetsnaz squad.]
[Fought in the Second Chechen War. In Beslan,]
[got into a firefight with four terrorists running to the exit,]
[hiding behind hostages. Killed by a burst of rile fire.]
[Managed to lead several children to safety.]
[Oleg Loskov was 23]
He was an only child. [Oleg Loskov was a praporshik of Alpha Spetsnaz squad.]
[Fought in the Second Chechen War. In Beslan,]
[got into a firefight with four terrorists running to the exit,]
[hiding behind hostages. Killed by a burst of rile fire.]
[Managed to lead several children to safety.]
[Oleg Loskov was 23] [Oleg Loskov was a praporshik of Alpha Spetsnaz squad.]
[Fought in the Second Chechen War. In Beslan,]
[got into a firefight with four terrorists running to the exit,]
[hiding behind hostages. Killed by a burst of rile fire.]
[Managed to lead several children to safety.]
[Oleg Loskov was 23]
I’m very grateful.
I admire them. I’m very grateful.
I admire them. But still, I believe that some heads of military arms or agencies were making bad decisions
at the time. It was all very wrong that they sent a team
to train with APCs [Two Spetsnaz emergency response teams arrived]
[at the school only 40 minutes after the explosions.]
[They’d been training 30 km outside of Beslan]
that they sent a team
to train with APCs [Two Spetsnaz emergency response teams arrived]
[at the school only 40 minutes after the explosions.]
[They’d been training 30 km outside of Beslan]
and then you launch
the assault, [Two Spetsnaz emergency response teams arrived]
[at the school only 40 minutes after the explosions.]
[They’d been training 30 km outside of Beslan]
after they’d driven up to bring out
the dead bodies, [Two Spetsnaz emergency response teams arrived]
[at the school only 40 minutes after the explosions.]
[They’d been training 30 km outside of Beslan]
when they drove up… [Two Spetsnaz emergency response teams arrived]
[at the school only 40 minutes after the explosions.]
[They’d been training 30 km outside of Beslan]
This was weird
miscoordination. This was weird
miscoordination. These guys left.
These are taking out the bodies. And they start shooting at the school
— at the gym, of all places! Even if you got the order to shoot at the school
to launch the assault. Why the gym,
of all places?! Where children spent days
without food or water. The school is large.
Why did it have to be the gym? Who gave the order to shoot
specifically at the gym? Or was someone so stupid that when they heard, “Attack! Fire!”
they just shot at the gym? I can’t believe three days
weren’t enough to establish where you can shoot
to distract the terrorists and where you can’t shoot. So you too are
inclined to believe that honest Russian lads heroically died
to mistakes of their superiors? I believe so. And I too blame the command
for making erroneous decisions. Whenever we go for a walk,
we stop by the school. We walk all the time. We go inside.
She comes up to everyone. “This is my classmate.” I began to notice that when she
comes up to the Alpha boys, she starts to… She comes up
and crosses herself and says something
to herself. I recently asked her, “Fatia, I can’t tell
what you’re saying.” She said, “I’m saying,
‘Thank you that I’m alive.'” This is something
she started doing very recently. She stands next to them, comes up to each one
to caress them. Why did so many children
die in the fire? This, I can’t bear
to remember even. Fatia always asks, “Why didn’t the firemen
bring any water?” I have no idea
how she learned this. “Why did they arrive,
but couldn’t put out the fire?” She also says, “The station
and our school are so close. “Why did we burn then?” When we come out,
she always looks from the balcony – …and says, “I don’t understand.”
– You mean the fire station? – No, the MVD.
– MVD. Right. “I don’t understand. There’s our police,
looking after me from the fifth floor. “Here’s the school. “Why did we burn?” She always asks,
“Why did we burn?” I don’t know.
Why did they? Over a hundred hostages didn’t die to gunfire. – They…
– Burned. They burned. How come? Because the ceiling fell down. – (Dud’) Why didn’t they fight the fire?
– (Mamsurov) It burned up. They didn’t fight the fire, because these
morons didn’t bring any water. The firefighters
didn’t bring any water, so when push came to shove,
they started looking for fire hydrants. How can this happen when you spend
three days waiting for the resolution,
the assault? Turns out, it just can. It’s your sense
of responsibility. Someone thought,
“There, I brought the firefighters,”
and started twiddling their thumbs. We, in turn, seeing the fire engines
and the firefighters in full gear, were sure we’re covered
on that front. Turned out, we weren’t. Same thing with the fire. See, I, in no way,
wish to blame the MChS guys who did rush inside, fought the fire,
saved and carried people out. I don’t blame
any of them at all. But again, their leadership. When we asked the head of MChS
of the republic in court and when we asked
regular rescuers why it took them two hours
to start putting out the fire, they said, “We didn’t get the go-ahead
to start putting out the fire.” Why would an emergency response
body wait for an order? The Minister of MChS responded, “The committee was supposed
to give the order. “I wasn’t the head
of the committee anymore. “My orders did not matter.” WHO was the head then? WHO was the head of the committee
at that point? And why did they need a go-ahead
to start putting out the fire, if civilians had started
putting it out themselves and everyone
had gone inside already? You know what I mean? I heard they
didn’t have any water. Yes, it’s also true. The fire engines drove up.
They’d been at the ready for two days. They said that according to instruction,
I haven’t seen this instruction, but they said they were
district engines from Vladikavkaz and their water tanks were half-full. We said: “Why half-full? You’d have needed
3 to 4 minutes worth of water.” They told us that they were supposed to hook up
to the hydrant in the school yard. They’re these special
water taps in the ground. And the firefighters were supposed
to hook up to them. We said: “But this was
a combat scenario! “You thought the terrorist on the roof
would let you hook up to it just like that?” They came to die. You came to save. Why didn’t you fill the tanks
in the two days you had? If some leaks out,
refill them, but be ready
when you’re needed. It took them a while to hook up
to the hydrant too. They had wrong connectors. They had to go find
the right ones. That’s how disorganized
it all was. The Beslan crisis showed that in a terrorist scenario,
in combat, our agencies failed. They passed with… I’d say with a C. Certainly not a B or an A. Although they had 52 hours [School occupation – September 1, 9:05 AM]
[Explosions in the gym – September 3, 1:05 PM]
Although they had 52 hours [School occupation – September 1, 9:05 AM]
[Explosions in the gym – September 3, 1:05 PM]
to sort everything out [School occupation – September 1, 9:05 AM]
[Explosions in the gym – September 3, 1:05 PM]
and prepare. and prepare. On the one hand,
the Russian government says, “We don’t negotiate
with terrorists.” Sure. On the other hand,
this rescue operation, which, by the way, took place
two years after the Nord-Ost crisis. Lots of weird things happened
during Nord-Ost. You’d think they would do
mistake analysis and act differently next time. But two years later, you’re coordinating a new
rescue operation and make mistake
upon mistake. Why does this happen? Why does our country..? You’d think — so many mistakes
throughout history. And yet we repeat them. In normal life too. That’s probably why. Because we always think, “This won’t happen to us.” After it happens again:
“This won’t happen a third time.” We have this problem
that I noticed a while ago. We need to strive to make it so in our country, every person’s life is precious and to devote the country’s
whole strategy to this. EVERY person’s. I mean… I heard the motto
of the Eastern Front was: “Women will make more.
We gotta end this.” Meaning, “At any cost.” Sadly, our attitude towards
people is… “They’ll make more.” This is what we’re lacking. Care. We need to make it so in our country,
the people are the first priority. [STAS] I was born in Beslan
in 1989. Not very smoothly —
I have a pretty rare anomaly. Inverted or mirrored
internal organs. My heart is on the right,
liver on the left. Spleen on the right.
Basically, all insides are mirrored. – Your heart is actually over here?
– Yes. Heart on the right, liver on the left. All organs are mirrored. At the same time, I have chronic
obstructive bronchitis. I was born with bronchitis. They said I won’t survive. Family even made
a little coffin. I was supposed to die
before long. I was blue all over. Think about it: 1989, winter.
The equipment… They probably didn’t have means
to easily rehabilitate a baby, but it would seem that mine or someone else’s
plans changed. As a result, I survived. Mom and dad didn’t hesitate
and took me to Piter. Since they couldn’t
diagnose me properly at home. We got to Piter
with me barely alive. To the Institute of Pulmonology. There, they diagnosed me and began proper treatment. At the end of day two, I lost… I mean my perception of reality
changed. I literally started
going crazy. It was probably the dehydration,
I don’t know. Like, I became convinced, this was about 20 minutes
before the first explosion, that others kids
would go outside, and there was a tap
with non-stop running water. So I became convinced
that other guys went outside to drink water. That they let ’em out. Like, they let ’em out
to drink. I sit there and I tell the guy
next to me, “Vadik…” I vaguely remember going, “I think we can go
drink outside.” I got up,
and that’s when it hit. It knocked me down. I was lying down…
Couldn’t hear anything. Someone’s running over you.
Someone fell on you.
Total chaos. Then there was
another explosion. But by then,
I’d gotten up again. And by then,
my throat was already… So I’m lying down and can’t tell where I’m breathing through. I was like… I felt it and realized
my throat was gushing blood. Remember how in Kill Bill, she cut off the arm,
and it gushed like a fountain? This was similar. And this voice in the back
of my mind said that I needed to wrap my throat
as tightly as possible. I wrapped my throat
with some rag. – Maybe you saw the tall sills?
– Yes. I climbed on a window sill. I still had
some strength left. Maybe it was
the third explosion, but something threw me
outside off the sill. I remember I fell and hit my knees
on bricks pretty badly. And… It was all like in a haze.
My hearing had returned. Like, I could hear again. The gunfire, the screaming. The assault had begun. Like, there was shooting
from both sides. There was an exit at the corner
of the school grounds. Through the garage lot. We all rushed that way. When the hostages started running
away from the school, the other side started to shower
the school with gunfire, because the terrorists were firing
at the running hostages. Who showered the school? Our guys. So as to not let
the terrorists fire at us. As I figured. We have a special structure
in every courtyard, a Hazar, as we call it, where we gather to celebrate
special holidays and all that stuff. So we ran inside. We got in. I remember I leaned
against a wall and passed out. It’s the last thing I remember.
Then I came to in an MChS tent. I still had my voice. I could speak. This guy said, “Any other..?” ‘Cause I was covered
in blood. He said, “Any other injuries?” I said,
“Hurts over here really bad.” Turned out, I had like
a piece of a bullet stuck. A fragment lodged
between two ribs. Didn’t tear the lung,
but somehow got stuck. That’s when I passed out. The next thing was… I was lying and I woke up from…
I was in a plastic bag. A body bag. They were covering me.
Like I had died. A girl from my class
was nearby. I don’t know by what chance.
I opened my eyes. Because I lost
a lot of blood, they couldn’t hear the… Since my heart
is on the right, they thought
I’d kicked the bucket. – Wait, so they saw
you were unconscious.
– Yes. – They put a hand or something
to your heart…
– Yeah, apparently. – …and couldn’t hear the beat.
– Yep. They probably thought
I was dead. They noticed
I opened my eyes… I was literally
in a black bag, dude. – For bodies.
– Yes. They pulled me out of it. And afterward,
I ended up in the hospital. So if you hadn’t opened your eyes
when you did, then in theory you… I think after a little while, yeah,
’cause I couldn’t move anymore. I probably physically only had
enough strength to open my eyes. I couldn’t move. From the blood loss
or something else. And then, I remember,
she said: “His heart is on the right!” Crazy, right? When I opened my eyes, a girl
from my class happened to be there. Ossetian flag! Yes. – Why?
– I just hung it there. To remind me
of my roots. How’s living in Moscow
after Ossetia? I just recently returned. I spent a month at home
after a show. I honestly really love
the place — the town of Beslan
and Ossetia. I’ll put it like this: I could be at home
anywhere, but I understand…
I’ll definitely go back to live out my last years, however many I’m allotted,
at home, in Ossetia. But for now, I think I need to stay
in Moscow to, you know… I feel like my place
is currently here. – Because it’s the center of your craft.
– Yes. Many people from around the world
started offering help in various forms. There were invitations
to rehabilitation centers. Even just regular people
from somewhere. Like, there was this
family from London. They said: “We can invite, like, ten people
to stay with us for a while “to distract them
from what happened.” Then my mom said,
“You wanna go on a cruise? “To Cuba.” There was a man. He was from Mexico. He had… At the time,
he was a pretty influential person
in Latin America. He expressed
the desire to invite some children to show them that life has a another
side to it. I only now realize that to contrast the evil
that happened to me, life showed me that there’s kindness out there
that counterbalances it. I don’t know if you’ll
understand this. It’s a very subtle thing.
The first time I… His name is Jorge Vergara. When I first me him
and looked at him, the first thing he asked me was,
“How do you feel?” This man simply asked me in Spanish,
“How do you feel?” He asked everyone. “How do you feel?” “What’s going on inside you?” “And how can I
help you with it?” Despite the fact that… We didn’t swim in money,
but we had everything. They showed us… I saw this white-sand Caribbean shore
for the first time in my life. I saw the 14-story cruise ship. We went on a cruise
along the Caribbean. I was totally…
For two weeks, I slipped out of that old reality. Honestly, most of all,
I liked the people who treated us
with such kindness. I really liked the people. Before that cruise,
I was totally convinced that I’ll grow up to work
in law enforcement and dedicate my life
to fighting terrorism and all other forms
of extremism. That I would rub out
the bearded dudes. That I would be the most
aggressive man in the world. I would do whatever it takes to stop
hatred from entering this world, but I’d wield hatred
myself. Right? But that would mean
that I’d lost. That those men who had
occupied the school got what they
wanted from… I always speak
only for myself. …what they wanted
from me. That it got me. That I’m no better than… And the Caribbean cruise
steered you away? Yeah, it changed me. ‘Cause I was certain at that point
that the whole world was like that. That the only thing
this world wanted was to keep me in a perpetual
state of aggression. That it wanted me to do
aggressive things. So you write
all your music here? Yes, my friend Nikita and I, we do everything here. Our album too. All here. So all music and all the beats
on the album are yours, right? [Indi, “First One”]
No, we bought the beats. [Indi, “First One”]
Our first album was like…
We bought the beats, Our first album was like…
We bought the beats, we got the rights,
all that stuff. I wasn’t writing
my own music yet. Then the approach
sort of transformed and gradually started
turning into complete in-house production. – You play the tune through these things.
– Record everything, yeah. Then mix it. I understand that your
key message is that issues and evil
are born of silence? While talking and sharing improves the odds
that you’ll end up with something good,
rather than bad? Exactly. Because evil is not something
external. It’s not something that… It comes from within. It’s born whenever we can’t
handle something and simultaneously can’t
share this with anyone, just because we’re so strong,
and so resilient, and so tough that we can
handle anything. That’s when your frustration
gets misplaced. This is my purpose now. To say that people need people. It’s a trite idea, but it’s true. This was a gift from a certain
important person in my life before a show. I was super anxious
about doing it. And check this out,
it says: “Sing like no one’s listening.” “Sing like no one’s listening.”
(In Russian.) – The top says,
“Dance like no one can see you.”
– Yes. Yes. This very phrase helped me
a lot during the show, because it, like,
emptied the room. – This was your first show ever?
– Yes. Past it,
it got so much easier. [Why doesn’t Russian negotiate with terrorists?] How do you feel about the principle,
“We don’t negotiate with terrorists?” As a principle, I like it. As a principle. If we’re talking about
national security, the idea of this principle
is self-evident: obviously, terrorists planning
some future attack must know that
it’s going to be futile, because no one is going to
negotiate with them or satisfy their demands. But at the same time,
I feel that while proclaiming
this principle, the state has to find ways,
secret ones, if need be, and do whatever it takes
to save the hostages and negotiate somehow. Secretly, without anyone knowing,
if need be, but it has to do
everything it can, because human life is, I’m saying banal things here,
we all know this, but it’s precious. Unfortunately, in this country,
that’s not the case. In court, I personally witnessed this, they summoned FSB’s official negotiator
Zangionov who talked to the terrorists. To every question
they asked, like the number of hostages
or the terrorists’ demands, to literally everything,
he said, “I don’t know. I don’t know. They didn’t tell me.
They didn’t inform me. “I didn’t have this information.
I don’t know anything.” But he talked to them.
He was the voice of… We, too, didn’t quite get
how he managed that. What did he discuss, if he didn’t even
know the number of hostages? He talked to terrorists who didn’t even
tell him how many hostages they had? Maybe he lied in court? I believe he actually didn’t know. That’s the issue. That the command only truly
worked on one course of action. To solve the situation
with force. Why? To show that… [*A famous Putin quote]
…”we’re tough,
we rub everyone out in the toilet*,
you can’t scare us, “even if you take a million children hostage
in this country, you can’t…” They wanted to talk
to someone with a tall political standing. On the political committee, ’cause it was divided into
military and political, someone suggested Karelin, because they like wrestlers. [Aleksandr Karelin, three-time Olympic]
[champion in Greco-Roman wrestling]
because they like wrestlers. [Aleksandr Karelin, three-time Olympic]
[champion in Greco-Roman wrestling]
I said: “Look. Karelin… [Aleksandr Karelin, three-time Olympic]
[champion in Greco-Roman wrestling]
“Sasha is great,
respectable guy, “Sasha is great,
respectable guy, “but they want a politician.
Send in someone like…” At least someone
of the caliber of… Okay, they capture a school.
Send the Minister of Education. He’s a member
of the government. Or Deputy Prime Minister
responsible for this school. The Minister himself
was supposed to contact him and say,
“What’s going on with our school?” At least have HIM
talk to them. Call them. Or talk on TV.
They’re watching it. Viktor Stepanovich Chernomirdin
used this method, didn’t he? [Negotiations between Prime Minister Viktor Chernomirdin]
[and Shamil Basaev during the Budionovsk hospital crisis]
[(14 to 19 June, 1995; over 1600 hostages) were partially]
[recorded by journalists and broadcast on TV]
What stopped them from doing the same?
Talk to them! [Negotiations between Prime Minister Viktor Chernomirdin]
[and Shamil Basaev during the Budionovsk hospital crisis]
[(14 to 19 June, 1995; over 1600 hostages) were partially]
[recorded by journalists and broadcast on TV]
The situation was,
the more you… [Negotiations between Prime Minister Viktor Chernomirdin]
[and Shamil Basaev during the Budionovsk hospital crisis]
[(14 to 19 June, 1995; over 1600 hostages) were partially]
[recorded by journalists and broadcast on TV]
Use the time you have
to save the people! [Negotiations between Prime Minister Viktor Chernomirdin]
[and Shamil Basaev during the Budionovsk hospital crisis]
[(14 to 19 June, 1995; over 1600 hostages) were partially]
[recorded by journalists and broadcast on TV] [Negotiations between Prime Minister Viktor Chernomirdin]
[and Shamil Basaev during the Budionovsk hospital crisis]
[(14 to 19 June, 1995; over 1600 hostages) were partially]
[recorded by journalists and broadcast on TV]
– People make fun of Chernomirdin
because of that conversation.
– Who does? – Lots of people.
– Well, those laughing should try and… Let them picture…
This always surprises me when they say, “Chernomirdin made a mistake.” You put your own
children in there. Your sisters, mothers, children — put THEM in that school
and say you don’t negotiate. And make fun of Chernomirdin. When it’s someone else’s children,
it’s so easy to judge. But when they’re yours… Try and put yourself and
your children in that scenario. Chernomirdin saved those people. He saved those people.
Did it change the situation in Chechnia? It changed nothing. The war ended.
Another one started. That’s that, if we’re talking
about saving people. If your concern is something else,
then by all means. Sure. Chernomirdin talked
to Shamil personally. Did he become a hero? What about the nearly
200 dead bodies [147 people died in the Budionovsk crisis.]
[Over 100 were killed before the hospital was occupied.]
[30 more, as a result of an unsuccessful assault.]
[All this happened before Chernomirdin intervened]
[and successfully negotiated the release of all hostages]
brought about by those
negotiations? [147 people died in the Budionovsk crisis.]
[Over 100 were killed before the hospital was occupied.]
[30 more, as a result of an unsuccessful assault.]
[All this happened before Chernomirdin intervened]
[and successfully negotiated the release of all hostages]
They’re in the ground,
just like our children. [147 people died in the Budionovsk crisis.]
[Over 100 were killed before the hospital was occupied.]
[30 more, as a result of an unsuccessful assault.]
[All this happened before Chernomirdin intervened]
[and successfully negotiated the release of all hostages]
What changed? [147 people died in the Budionovsk crisis.]
[Over 100 were killed before the hospital was occupied.]
[30 more, as a result of an unsuccessful assault.]
[All this happened before Chernomirdin intervened]
[and successfully negotiated the release of all hostages]
Chernomirdin all but chattered
with him over the phone like they were brothers. They say, if he hadn’t talked to him,
more people would’ve been killed. My point is, when they say,
“Why didn’t they negotiate?” Well, they used.
What did it change? But… Again, Budionovsk is considered a case
where the issue was resolved. Yeah. When they buried 170 people and filled the cemetery,
then it was resolved. Everyone now calls
Chernomirdin a wimp for picking up the phone
and talking to Basaev. I believe it was an act of a,
if not great, then at the very least,
significant political figure. He saved a lot of people.
His people. His citizens. Same situation… Some might parry with:
had we eliminated Basaev that time, we wouldn’t have had
any of the following attacks that he inspired
or carried out himself. Again. The reason for all of these attack
was the Chechen War. No war, no attacks. That’s how you solved
this situation. Someone like Gelaev
would’ve replaced Basaev. Or Khattab. Or Umarov. The terrorists were destroyed, when warfare
in Chechnia ended. The terrorist attacks
didn’t cease right after Beslan. There were… Attacks continued
for a while afterward. There were a lot of them. But! As soon as large-scale warfare
in Chechnia ended, as soon as their population stopped
supporting the terrorists, not terrorists — terrorists, they… terrorist activity of North Caucasian
underground fizzled out. So in that situation, if we’re being realistic… “Let’s kill the terrorists,
but continue the war in Chechnia.
There’ll be no terrorists.” There would’ve been
more terrorists. How do you feel about the Russian
government’s principle, “We don’t negotiate
with terrorists.” Just like I said before. Sure, don’t negotiate. It’s a slick principle. What’s your alternative? What you’re saying is,
“No negotiating. We’ll kill everyone.” 333 people killed.
Do you think that’s a lot? How many more died in Nord-Ost?
They didn’t tell. But it’s more bodies. [According to official sources, the Dubrovka Theater]
[hostage crisis in 2002 resulted in 130 deaths.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was actually 174 people]
You want to save the people,
don’t you? [According to official sources, the Dubrovka Theater]
[hostage crisis in 2002 resulted in 130 deaths.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was actually 174 people]
Negotiating is one thing.
Sure, don’t negotiate. [According to official sources, the Dubrovka Theater]
[hostage crisis in 2002 resulted in 130 deaths.]
[According to Nord-Ost public organization,]
[the death toll was actually 174 people]
If you’re confident in an operation
that will result in zero losses, then do it. But I don’t know of a single
operation with no losses. Name me one. Chernomirdin had a talk. Everyone got out. All the children grew up.
They live happily today. I saw some girls
I’d carried out. In Croatia. The Mayor of Zagreb, Milan, he still brings fifty people over to Croatia
every year for holidays. I always say:
imagine they’re your children. It’s easy to exercise your principles
when it’s other people and their children. Or declare or stand for them. Put your children
in their place. Imagine it’s your
children in there. Or people you love. And say that we don’t
negotiate with anyone. If you allowed this to happen… ‘Cause the problem is:
why did they allow this to happen? What was the intelligence
doing? Why were they allowed to drive
all that way and enter the school? This band did quite the journey in their UAZ cars
and trucks. Since you allowed this, forgive the word,
screw-up to happen, then act accordingly
to its gravity. [Why did survivor aid run dry?] I have an easier time
than Fatia. My life… Her life depends on these trips.
Literally. Even after 15 years,
her life still depends on them. In my case, only my health
is on the line. I can manage with a local rehabilitation
center time to time. As long as I’m getting
the bare minimum, I’ll be fine. – Is Germany actually better?
– Yes, much better. Like, I’m not saying that
any place in Germany is better. I just know a specific clinic. In this clinic,
I got and still get results. Including the first meaningful results just months later. Where it got going. My prognosis was:
chair, at best. Chair, at best. They said this in Moscow
and in Germany. Nobody thought anything more
was possible. You wanna hear
how my leg moved? – Please, do.
– …for the first time. The Germans have this system where the head physician
does rounds every week to check on
all of his inpatients. His name was Dr. Meiners. He was this middle-aged,
very serious mister. Professor. So he comes to see me during rounds
with my doctor and my… What do you call ’em?
My instructors. They stand there. I didn’t understand
much German at the time. And they talk and talk
to each other. Then he looks at me
like this and goes, “Try and move
your right foot.” I look up at him.
“Just try.” I remember he talked
to me in English. I try to move it,
but it doesn’t work. He goes, “Try left foot.” I do… and it moves. And there’s silence. They said: “Could be spasticity
or just chance. Try again.” I try again.
It moves again. “Again.” It moves again.
My instructors look at me and go: “What’s going on? Yesterday,
you couldn’t do it after exercises.” “I don’t know.
It’s just moving.” He goes: “Okay, get everyone pronto.
You, out of the bed, to the gym.” They take me downstairs
to the gym. Half the clinic gathers round,
starts discussing how to proceed
with rehabilitation. Originally, all the emphasis
was on my arms, because they clearly
responded to therapy. Legs were meh.
As long as they didn’t atrophy. After this gathering, they completely
reworked the rehabilitation plan and started paying
emphasizing the legs too. When I was leaving… This was about three months
into rehabilitation. I left two months later. They’d also gotten
my knee to work. I also learned
to bend my knee. This was when we realized that I needed
to exercise more. If there’s even
a glimmer of hope, we needed to buckle down
and go at it. The republic tries to help… The republic does help. The republic does everything. – But the federal…
– What about funding from Moscow? I mean the state,
not private parties. – Nothing?
– Nothing. But they help, for example, when there’s a need
for examination of therapy from some medical facility
in Moscow or Petersburg. We get in touch with
the Ministry of Healthcare. In these situations,
they do offer help. People get examinations,
therapy, all that. But these are case-by-case. You have ask and send requests
every time, year after year. Though I believe that the Ministry of Healthcare
should have a program for treatment and rehabilitation
of Beslan survivors. How did the state help
the survivors afterward? There were sizeable
monetary compensations. Putin specified that he
personally requested financial aid from
state-owned businesses so they’d donate money.
And they did donate a lot. Gazprom did a lot for Beslan,
for example. They funded playgrounds,
new school construction. There was lots of money. But this was single-time
assistance. There weren’t too many heavily injured survivors in Beslan, but however few, it was clear they’d need
state support for years and years. The help dried up
just a few years later. People had to ask
and beg the officials. Everyone’s tired of them,
’cause they’re still asking. But no one really cares
anymore. The tragedy doesn’t sting
as bad today. But a lot of children needed
proper rehabilitation. This had to be systematic
assistance. No one bothered with that. I know that during
Mamsurov’s presidency… Taymuraz Mamsurov. His children
were among the hostages. He took this tragedy to heart. The survivors had an easier time then,
than they do today. Fatima Dzgoeva. A year after the crisis,
she was in a vegetative state. Today, she’s a completely
different person. It’s hard to imagine that only recently,
her condition was desperate. And yet, for rehabilitation
in Germany, her family first had to
sell apartments, then straight up ask
people for help. Footballer Dzagoev helped.
Someone else. They basically
beg for charity. Why? I Fatima Dzgoeva
and everyone else were getting help
all these years. But here’s the thing: after I die, they will live on, and unfortunately, due to these
children’s health conditions, they will need help
for the rest of their lives. Today, when you say,
“beg for charity,” I beg you to be mindful, because Fatima herself
will tell you, “I DO get help, but unfortunately,
it’s no always enough.” They’re very different things. And… I haven’t been working in the republic
for almost five years now, and so I can’t tell you what kinds of help
she receives or doesn’t receive. Can you explain, as someone
working for the state, [Taymuraz Mamsurov is currently]
[a member of the Federation Council ]
as someone working
for a state body… I’m young and naive, sure. But. The state allowed the Beslan
school occupation. [The state failed to protect its citizens] [The state failed to protect its citizens]
Several families [The state failed to protect its citizens] [The state failed to protect its citizens]
– …have needed rehabilitation
ever since.
– Yes. [The state failed to protect its citizens]
In my mind, [The state failed to protect its citizens]
to make it up
to its citizens, [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]
to make it up
to its citizens, [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]
a state, [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]
especially one that extracted
lots of expensive oil [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]

[The state has the money]
and made lots of money
in the aughts, [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]

[The state has the money]
it should cover
these people’s every need [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]

[The state has the money]
for the rest of their lives. [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]

[The state has the money]

[The state provides for the victims]
[for the rest of their lives]
for the rest of their lives. [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]

[The state has the money]

[The state provides for the victims]
[for the rest of their lives]
It’s a adequate standard [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]

[The state has the money]

[The state provides for the victims]
[for the rest of their lives]
for a state-citizen
relationship [The state failed to protect its citizens]

[The victims require long-term]
[expensive treatment]

[The state has the money]

[The state provides for the victims]
[for the rest of their lives]
in this awful scenario. – Why isn’t it like that?
– You would’ve been right, had it happened to all of them
or to the vast majority. Again. Am I supposed
to brag here? There are two families. I’m handling this as we speak. A mother just like hers who spends all her money
and all her time to treat her daughter
in Germany. She invested her savings into
real estate in Krasnodar Kray. Someone took advantage of her.
She skipped a trip to Germany. I’m trying to resolve this, turning Krasnodar courts
inside out. Another family here. Young man recovered.
You all saw him. They showed footage
of him on all channels, even foreign ones. He was bedridden. Yeah. He needs a job, but he can’t find one.
I’m working on that too. Point is, we’re helping everyone. However, some families
will always need help. If you know of more
cases like that, to make it productive, give me the names,
I’ll try to help them too. Some might say,
“What’s this Germany fanciness?” “They can get treatment in Russia.
We’re not Africa or something. “We too have
rehabilitation centers.” They want Germany because they gave Fatima Dzgoeva
a shunt in 2006. The plate itself is up here, while the tourniquet
reaches the esophagus. They put this implement in
in Germany. When our Russian doctors
offered to take the key for regulation and examination
of this implement, meaning, they could do
the same manipulations here, her parents asked: “Are you certain you can do it?
Is there a risk of mishandling it?” The doctors told them, “We’ll do our best.
We should start doing this locally. “We have the means
and the knowledge.” But they didn’t offer
any guarantees. Sure, they don’t offer any
guarantees in Germany either. She goes over there
and gets a little better. She comes back
and gets a bit worse. However, the quality of
examination and rehabilitation that she gets over there, should be the same
quality of rehabilitation if she does it here. But it isn’t. – You saw for yourself,
Beslan doesn’t have that.
– Moscow? Moscow too. They offered her
to go to Moscow, but her parents want her
do to undergo rehabilitation and further therapy in Germany,
where they put in her shunt. To me, when people say: “They’re being fussy.
They want this or that.” I think they have
the right to be fussy. So if her parents insist on it, let it be their whim. Is it so hard for the state
to grant them this whim? Do you ever feel like
very few people truly care about Beslan? There’s you in
the Federation Councilб because it affected you
personally. Maybe a few more
ethnic Ossetians. I wanna reassure you.
After the crisis, we gathered round, the mourners, and I said what I thought: “Stick together. “All these fairy tales and droves
of sympathizers coming here, “they, “I’m very grateful to them, “but in time, no one will care about us. “There will be other tragedies. “If we don’t stick together, “we won’t get anywhere.” I said it then
and I believe it today. Follow-up question then: do you think Vladimir Putin
cares about you? He does. Because he always asks. Because a lot of things requested by Beslan have been
done for Beslan. Then Medvedev was
the president. They went to meet
HIM too. Even past me.
They went to him directly. He did a lot too. But again, if there is some unresolved issue,
we know of it. I know the people
you bring up. Your purpose is to show
that you discovered them. But we know all of them. We have been and will keep on
helping them however we can. Have you ever felt that the reason for this inert
attitude towards people is that up there, at the very top, folks are embarrassed
of the topic of Beslan or just don’t want to bring it up
for whatever reasons. I think it’s partly because
they don’t want to bring it up. Partly, because they want
to forget the Beslan crisis. And partly because
those agencies now have new people. There’s employee turnover. There are probably
new people, who don’t know much
about Beslan and who, you know… Like, they work in their agency today.
They care about today. What happened back then,
concerns them very little. So you don’t feel
like you’re doing it with insufficient support
from your superiors? You know? You can support
someone who staggers. You can support
a bad posture. You don’t like this word here. I’m a live man. If I can do
something within my reach, that’s my philosophy. Discussing humanity
or my nation, that’s not my forte. I leave it up to those
who weren’t affected. When I can help, I do.
I know lots of people like me, including my old classmates or families where we’d
buried half a family, and the other half lives on. We continue burying
these children. Recently buried
a boy next door. We’d been working to save him
for years in foreign clinics. Yet he still died. Are we supposed to say
this was a waste of money? Try and see
what I’m saying. I’m trying to immerse you in the atmosphere
we live in. So that you understand
our reactions. I understand
the Beslanians’ reaction. I don’t quite
understand yours. You were affected. You have lots of issues
with the investigation. – Yes.
– You have issues with the assault I do. – You admit that lots of things
were done suboptimally.
– They were. And yet you defend
Vladimir Putin – …who’s guilty of it to such a degree…
– Oh-kay. So guilty that I can’t
understand you. God forbid I face
what you faced. I get that… I don’t have any reasons
to defend Vladimir Putin. But I don’t want to become one of those loudmouths who say, “It’s Putin’s fault!” Yes, they’re heroes.
They helped my Beslan. They set things right. “Let’s hang Putin! Or shoot him!” – What do they want?
– May I answer?
– Yes. – We don’t mean that.
– Then what? We don’t call for executions. We want the man whose state-owned company
has top management that makes 50 million
bucks a year to make it so the Duchkos
don’t live in poverty, so that Diana Murtazova goes to Germany
for rehabilitation every year, so that Fatima Dzgoeva doesn’t collect
money through Novaya Gazeta, or Russia Today,
or someone else. That’s our message. We don’t… – You ran out of fingers yet?
– Yes. Let’s go to some
other place. You’ll find lots of woeful
people like them. Even if I tried to find reasons
to direct my protest at Putin, I wouldn’t be able to. I saw this man in 2004, in 2005, and later, and I’ve never seen him react
to the topic of Beslan calmly. The state had lots things
to take care of, and it did. I always talked to him and anyone
in the Russian government directly. Whenever I came to, for example,
the Ministry of Finance, and said, “We need to compensate
such and such expenses,” they always signed
everything without issue. I see all this
with my own eyes, but they still tell me,
“You have to damn him!” I’m a pragmatic man. – If I damn him, what next?
– No, don’t damn him. Take his money. – Yes!
– Okay… – Yes.
– I’ll find a way… That’s the point. To take the money
from Rosneft’s top management and give it
to Fatima Dzgoeva. And Diana Murtazova.
And the Duchkos. [If you wish to help our protagonists,]
[the instructions are in the description] [How did Beslan change Russia?] Back then, one of Kommersant’s
competitors was Izvestiya. Their editor-in-chief
Raf Shakirov was fired. [Dud’ worked in Izvestiya’s]
[sports dept. at the time]
For the the center spread
and the pictures in the paper. [Dud’ worked in Izvestiya’s]
[sports dept. at the time]
For the eight or four… – For the eight pages in a row.
– Yes. Those pictures gut-punched you so hard and were so… that you
looked at them and thought: “Where am I living?
How could this happen? “Where is our government? “Where is our state? “Where’s the president? “How could this happen?” It’s obvious why they got rid of Shakirov. Considering what kind
of country we live in and the political context. ‘Cause you see,
after that… People who saw these pictures lost all hope that if they ended up in this situation,
they’d be saved. We realized that
in Beslan on September 3. But we were few. We live in a huge country, and in that moment,
it too suddenly realized that. People who saw these pictures
realized that. It’s terrifying. You lose all faith
in your government. You lose faith in the idea
that you’re safe. Living without faith
is terrifying. How did Beslan change Russia
in terms of politics? Dramatically. They used the guise
of global anti-terrorism. A lot of bad things in the world
were done under this guise. They’re still done today. But we presented it like we needed to… Maybe you remember the huge rallies
in Moscow organized by Vladimir Solovyov. They also used it as an excuse
to terminate governor elections. What was the idea
of the rally? [“Proclamations at Vasiliy Spusk square:]
[‘We stand with Putin!’ ‘Support our government!’]
[‘Only together, can we win!’ ‘Prosecute the terrorists!’]
[‘Hand over Zakaev!’ ‘Machine guns are our negotiators!’]
[Some demanded dire and immediate punishment.”]
[Vesti.ru, 7 September 2004]
It was organized
by the government… [“Proclamations at Vasiliy Spusk square:]
[‘We stand with Putin!’ ‘Support our government!’]
[‘Only together, can we win!’ ‘Prosecute the terrorists!’]
[‘Hand over Zakaev!’ ‘Machine guns are our negotiators!’]
[Some demanded dire and immediate punishment.”]
[Vesti.ru, 7 September 2004]
It meant to say that we stand
with the government [“Proclamations at Vasiliy Spusk square:]
[‘We stand with Putin!’ ‘Support our government!’]
[‘Only together, can we win!’ ‘Prosecute the terrorists!’]
[‘Hand over Zakaev!’ ‘Machine guns are our negotiators!’]
[Some demanded dire and immediate punishment.”]
[Vesti.ru, 7 September 2004]
and its methods of fighting terrorism,
including political ones, [“Proclamations at Vasiliy Spusk square:]
[‘We stand with Putin!’ ‘Support our government!’]
[‘Only together, can we win!’ ‘Prosecute the terrorists!’]
[‘Hand over Zakaev!’ ‘Machine guns are our negotiators!’]
[Some demanded dire and immediate punishment.”]
[Vesti.ru, 7 September 2004]
as it destroys all democratic
institution in its path. They terminated
governor elections. And from that point on… [After terminating the elections, Putin began to appoint]
[heads of regions personally with approval in local dumas.]
[In 2012, elections were reinstated almost everywhere.]
[In Ossetia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Karachaevo-Cherkessia,]
[and Kabardino-Balkaria, heads are still approved]
[by the parliament]
– This was the start of clamping down…
– On many things. [After terminating the elections, Putin began to appoint]
[heads of regions personally with approval in local dumas.]
[In 2012, elections were reinstated almost everywhere.]
[In Ossetia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Karachaevo-Cherkessia,]
[and Kabardino-Balkaria, heads are still approved]
[by the parliament]
– Of decline of democracy…
– Yes. [After terminating the elections, Putin began to appoint]
[heads of regions personally with approval in local dumas.]
[In 2012, elections were reinstated almost everywhere.]
[In Ossetia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Karachaevo-Cherkessia,]
[and Kabardino-Balkaria, heads are still approved]
[by the parliament] [After terminating the elections, Putin began to appoint]
[heads of regions personally with approval in local dumas.]
[In 2012, elections were reinstated almost everywhere.]
[In Ossetia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Karachaevo-Cherkessia,]
[and Kabardino-Balkaria, heads are still approved]
[by the parliament]
Yes. On many things. [After terminating the elections, Putin began to appoint]
[heads of regions personally with approval in local dumas.]
[In 2012, elections were reinstated almost everywhere.]
[In Ossetia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Karachaevo-Cherkessia,]
[and Kabardino-Balkaria, heads are still approved]
[by the parliament] [After terminating the elections, Putin began to appoint]
[heads of regions personally with approval in local dumas.]
[In 2012, elections were reinstated almost everywhere.]
[In Ossetia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Karachaevo-Cherkessia,]
[and Kabardino-Balkaria, heads are still approved]
[by the parliament]
If not for Beslan, would Russia
have been different? [After terminating the elections, Putin began to appoint]
[heads of regions personally with approval in local dumas.]
[In 2012, elections were reinstated almost everywhere.]
[In Ossetia, Dagestan, Ingushetia, Karachaevo-Cherkessia,]
[and Kabardino-Balkaria, heads are still approved]
[by the parliament]
Had they saved the children,
it would’ve been different. Yes. Different how? More humane. Life would’ve been
completely different today. Not as rigid. No clamp downs. Maybe Putin would’ve
quietly stepped down. And the government
would’ve changed. He wouldn’t have needed to stay
in power permanently out of fear. Maybe things would’ve been very different,
had they saved the children. Do you think the authorities did everything
in their power to save the children? I don’t think they did. There was more work to do. Exclude accidents. I fear there were
some accidents. When you do these things,
you minimize chance. First accident hazard
was the local militia. For example. Who could guarantee
that one of them wouldn’t suddenly
take a shot at the school? And they’d shoot back. – Realistic?
– Of course. That’s one. Another hazard that… I keep thinking:
what happened when..? I still wonder: what happened when they were
retrieving those 20 bodies? What random thing
happened there? That’s two. See, from talking to them,
it was clear… I realized the terrorists
didn’t know what to do next. ‘Cause here’s the issue. They had to know
that political demands… They thought:
children, piece of cake… But the political demands
they put forward… How do you fulfill them?
How do you “pull out the forces?” Come on. But they had to keep working
and keep talking. Like with… – Do you have children?
– Yes. You dealt with babies? Well, of course. – When they cry, you comfort them, right?
– Yeah. So you comfort them! You have to comfort them,
talk to them calmly, try and defuse the situation,
get more people out. I got out 26 people,
but we could’ve gotten out more! At least get as many people
as possible out of there. They weren’t animals. I talked to their leader. – He was…
– They’re animals. Okay. – How can you..?
– No, wait, wait. I don’t mean “animals”
literally. Physically, they’re humans. You can find a way to talk
to any human being. Obviously, a crocodile
wouldn’t understand you. Or if a lion grabbed a man,
talking to him is pointless. If he grabbed someone
at the zoo and rips them. Killing is the only way. But even with the worst people,
you have to talk. Is it fair to say
that the government would prefer if people
never brought up Beslan? Yes. Yes. They really want everyone
to forget and not think about it, because everyone knows
what they did there. – I understand that Putin
visited Beslan only once?
– Yes. – The night after the assault.
– Yes, early morning on the 4th. Any idea why? I’d say… One possibility
is that he was ashamed. Though to be honest,
I’m not sure. I’ve never seen shame
on his face. But I want to believe
that he was ashamed. Or maybe he wanted to avoid
hearing sharp rebukes. Maybe he was scared.
I don’t know. – Putin visited Beslan exactly once.
– Maybe, yes. Only for a couple of hours
after the assault. Any idea why? What if I told you
he’s been there again? We went to the cemetery, when he was traveling during
the South Ossetia War. We went to the forest camp
in the middle of the night where they treated
the heavily injured. He wanted to meet with them to personally talk to the fighters
brought over just an hour ago. On his way back to the airport,
we stopped and stayed a bit. He was here. What year was that? – 2008?
– 2008.
– Right. How many visits would stop
these questions? So he paid a secret visit? Why secret? It was a… [Vladimir Putin did visit Ossetia in August of 2008.]
[However, we found no mention of a visit]
[to the Beslan cemetery on this trip in the media]
Why secret? It was a… [Vladimir Putin did visit Ossetia in August of 2008.]
[However, we found no mention of a visit]
[to the Beslan cemetery on this trip in the media]
They showed it on
Channel Two, I think. [Vladimir Putin did visit Ossetia in August of 2008.]
[However, we found no mention of a visit]
[to the Beslan cemetery on this trip in the media]
On all channels. How did Beslan change
your opinion of Vladimir Putin? It didn’t. Why would it? I’ve always known
how he leads. It didn’t change. How does he lead? He’s a stern leader. How do you feel
about stern leadership? I think… You want sternness, but it depends. Sometimes, you have to
put your foot down. But when people’ lives
are on the line, you have to understand that they’re
human beings who came into this life
to live. You believe the state
betrayed its children? – Yes.
– Why? I mean… It didn’t save them
and didn’t even try. I’ve been to many combat zones
and saw many terrorist attacks, including the Dubrovka siege where it was also evident, at least to me it was evident, that the government didn’t care about
saving as many hostages as possible. It only cared about
rubbing out the terrorists. It succeeded at that. While the number of hostage deaths?
Well, that’s just a formality of the situation,
as they say. The Beslan crisis sort of deepened
this realization that we’re merely cogs, you know? That every…
“Women will make more.” A person’s life is not
precious in this country, because… If they didn’t even do everything
they could to save children, what else is there to say? Authors
Yuriy Dud’
Aleksandr Golovin
Camera
Sergey Linkov
Sergey Firsov
Story editor
Yevgeniy Statsenko
Color
Dmitriy Fiodorov
Editor
Dmitriy Parionkin
English translation
Semion Galtsev

Comments (100)

  1. Внутри:

    2:00 Главные герои
    11:17 Как оказался возможен захват заложников?
    19:19 Что происходило внутри школы?
    26:18 Как велись переговоры?
    50:01 Фатима
    1:03:10 Можно ли было спасти заложников?
    1:17:56 Диана
    1:29:56 Почему случился штурм?
    1:58:48 Марина
    2:09:02 Кто спасал заложников?
    2:21:17 Стас
    2:34:38 Почему Россия не ведет переговоры с террористами?
    2:42:57 Из-за чего заглохла помощь жертвам теракта?
    2:59:03 Как Беслан изменил Россию?

  2. Главный вывод: В России не ценится человеческая жизнь. От этого огромное количество проблем.

  3. Спасибо Юра и команда. Это тот случай, когда "кто, если не ты". Огромное вам всем спасибо за фильм, за то, что даёте знание и понимание. Я помню эти дни, как ждали новостей и надеялись, что все закончилось и все живы.

  4. Давай про взрывы домов в волгодонске ! Будь здоров!

  5. Дружище давай про войну в Чечне про 1 и про 2

  6. Басаев взял на себя ответственность. Организаторы и исполнители все были Ингуши В ЭТОЙ БОЙНЕ!!!

  7. соловьев подсобник этих мерзких тварей, кто совершил этот терракт. соловей пидор. поддерживает этот ебучий режим значит пособник. урод клерк.

  8. Какие умные и бесстрашные женщины давали интервью, а мужчины все искали подходящие слова, изворачивались

  9. Я – как человек, который болел гнойно-энцефалитным менингитом, как человек, который лежал в коме 5 дней и чудом вернулся на этот свет живым и здоровым, желаю Фатиме здоровья, счастья, добра и помогу, чем смогу

    Низкий тебе поклон, Юрий, за такой прекрасный фильм!

  10. АУШЕВ ТЫ НАША ГОРДОСТЬ! ПРОСВЕТАНИЯ ТВОЕГО НАРОДА ЧЕЧНИ И ИНГУШЕТИИ!

  11. Про взрывы домов в 99 Москва, Волгодонск, "учения" в Рязани не хочешь снять?

  12. Юрий, спасибо за проделанную работу
    Смелое и сильное видео👍🏾👍🏾

  13. пропагандоны(вечерние м), мой комент ради (для) вас

  14. 1. Согласен с тем, что государство обязано брать все расходы на пожизненную реабилитацию пострадавших в терактах на себя. Просто по тому, что государство допустило теракт.
    2. Аушеву низкий поклон за то, что спас часть детей.
    3. В фильме опять повторяют мифы про то, что это был плохо спланированный штурм, взрывы из вне, выстрелы шмеля и т.д. В очередной раз Дудь не потрудился потратить время и разобраться в теме, вместо этого пригласил Милашину и она опять чушь наговорила.

    – Истинная цель теракта была втянуть в войну Осетию и Ингушетию. Поэтому ставились заведомо невыполнимые требования террористов. Поэтому Масхадов не смог бы договориться об освобождении детей, к тому же для террористов Масхадов был никто и даже если бы он приехал, его бы никто не стал слушать.
    – Да, в Будденовске договорились с Басаевым, в итоге люди все равно погибли и Басаев ушел. Ушел и остался жив. Как результат Норд-ост, Беслан и другие теракты.
    – Пожар в спортзале начался когда террористы еще активно стреляли вокруг школы. Пожарных просто убили бы и кто тогда тушил бы пожар?
    – первые два взрыва были внутри школы, когда террористы активировали бомбы. К счастью, взорвались не все бомбы. После взрывов заложники бросились спасаться и начался штурм. Даже не штурм, а попытки освободить и защитить оставшихся детей. Не надо врать про то, что первые взывы это взрывы из шмеля по школе.

  15. АПЛ "Курск"

  16. В то время, когда произошёл этот терракт, мне было 7 дней. Мне повезло что я родился не в 98-м…

  17. Юра себя береги и свою семью!
    Таких как ты не любят в Рашке

  18. 27000 ДИЗЛАЙКОВ КРЕМЛЕБОТОВ

  19. КОГДА ВЛАДИМИРА ВИНОГРАДОВА ПОЗОВЕШЬ????

  20. сидел читал списки погибших, не знаю как культурно выразить, там есть моменты 3:09:42 у людей четверо детей побило, меня такой ужас охватил, сам отец, думаю я бы с ума сошел. огромная сила воли у этих людей, я часто там езжу, мимо Беслана, у меня даже духу не хватает заехать, знаю что должен сыну объяснить и показать, обязательно сделаю это, блин пишу, а у самого ком в горле. Юра молодец

  21. И пусть все против тебя, и пусть говорят про то, что ты несёшь бред. Главное, что говоришь и показываешь правду, а не только свое мнение, как на многих каналах. #дудьлучший

  22. Юрий, большое спасибо Вам за этот фильм! Спасибо за правду! Вы очень смелый, человечный и высокопрофессиональный журналист. Я глубоко сочувствую всем этим людям. И чувствую, что мы все, простые люди, как бессильные пешки в чьей-то игре. Дай Бог, чтобы подобное никогда не повторилось…И как же умалчивание фактов во время этой ужасной трагедии похоже на действия руководства страны во время страшной аварии на Чернобыльской АЭС…Уму непостижимо. Оказывается, за 30 лет поведение людей у власти не изменилось…? Даже фатальные ошибки ничему не учат…? Что это – русский "авось"…? Или что-то ещё более страшное…?

  23. Отличная работа. Браво! Аушев не просто Герой, он реальный ЧЕЛОВЕК

  24. Проподи ты проподом действующяя власть россии! В этой стране лучшие люди которые заслужили своей историей жить в лучшей стране с лучшими условиями жизни для людей но эти суки во власти 25 лет уничтожают граждан этой страны ! На лечение исколеченые люди своей властью помощ находят в Германии

  25. Дудь эта не коза а условный знак сатанистов которые в заговоре с сатаной !

  26. Божечки, сбилась считая таблички. Там моих ровестников полно. А во время теракта даже не представляла масштаб. До глубины тронул Ваш фильм. Спасибо за то, что Вы делаете.

  27. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDwBqb9s6RA ) Пучков со специалистам рабирает косяки и ляпы Дудя по косточкам). Вечная память всем жертавам теракта

  28. Юра, вали из страны, пока не поздно! Работай оттуда!

  29. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCTfr4UnxKM. Товарищи. Смотрим и думает и особо не верим господину дУДЮ И Г-ЖЕ сОБЧАК!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  30. Больно. Очень больно и стыдно за такое государство…

  31. хороший фильм, спасибо Юрию

  32. Спасибо большое за фильм! Берегите себя!

  33. давайте, добиваем до миллиона лайков и 18 лямов просмотров

  34. Классная работа, спасибо большое! Здоровья людям.

  35. можно еще про норд ост и буденновск, было бы интересно

  36. Блять, ну вот кто эти 27 тысяч людей, который поставили дизлайк? Я понимаю что есть какие то боты или люди, которые дисят политические мнения или еще что то в этом роде, но не это же видео!!! Пиздец…

  37. А сколько бесланов вы устроили на Донбассе?

  38. Сними видео про Осетино-Ингушский конфликт. Лайк чтобы он увидел.

  39. 2:51:08 дай мне их, я ими займусь тоже… и нос потер, балабол

  40. Про пожар в «Зимней Вишне» в Кемерово не дадут снять такой фильм.
    Ещё не известно чем закончится эта история.
    Но Юра и команда молодцы. Это сильно!
    Осторожней. Гнильё сто процентов уже вас взяли вас «на карандаш».
    Если Поперечного «успокоили» спец.службы. А он просто типа юморист. То тут уже посерьезней моменты.

  41. А потом юра говорит что Ельцин топ, когда Беслан его прямая вина.

  42. не смог досмотреть с первого раза. Сильно.

  43. офигеть, интервью с Ивлевой собрало больше просмотров чем этот репортаж …

  44. Какой этот испанец молодец очень тонкий душевный человек. ДАЙ ему бог здоровья .Мне так хочеться поехать в Беслан и поминуть всех детишек .Какая же боль в душе на всю жизнь

  45. Никогда никто не узнает правды ,Никогда не один человек .

  46. Журналистка очень умная со светлыми волосами .Не голова а дом советов. Нам ведь тоже не понять .Выхода немогли найти поэтому штурм был как попало и как уж получиться .Мы все люди просто люди не Боги. И все ошибаемся.,будь хоть кто военный хоть чиновник да хоть кто .Думаю урок всем и на всю жизнь .Детей очень жаль просто слов нет такое издевательство ,кровью сердце обливаеться .Простите нас дети милые спитите спокойно 😓😓😓

  47. По поводу Марины я ослышалась или она сказала что террорист помог ей перевернув ее на живот. ДВА РАЗА ПЕРЕСЛУШАЛА ЭТО ПРАВИЛЬНО Я РАССЛЫШАЛА ОТВЕТЬТЕ КТО НИБУДЬ

  48. Правительство правильно все сделало… переговоров с бандитами, терраристами не надо вести. Масхадова если он действительно хотел приехать правильно что не пустили… не надо было из него делать героя. Он конечно лучше Басаева, Радуева, Хаттаба но он тоже отдавал приказ убивать наших солдат. Порядок в Ичкерии он тоже не смог навести.

  49. Всех убитых, покалеченных очень жаль.

  50. Вот и нужно было журналистам проводить спецоперацию… они бы всех заложников спасли.Они умней всех все знают все умеют.

  51. Обидно до слёз, за такое "отношение" власти к этим людям, которые пережили все это! Да и вообще, за отношение к "своему народу". Воодушевляет, что ни смотря на все трудности и лишения. Они продолжают улыбаться, радоваться жизни и не теряют веру в добро. Юрий, огромное человеческое спасибо за этот фильм!!!

  52. Юра ты молодец я за тебя переживаю

  53. Соловьев-мразь! Желаю каждому , кто увидит эту роду , харкнуть ему в его ублюдскую харю.

  54. как вам Юра вешает лапшу на уши…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDwBqb9s6RA

  55. Акция террора спланирована не без участия людей в кремле

  56. где соловьев и где вДудь… Спасибо!

  57. Про зимнюю вишню

  58. Трагедия в Беслане сделано по заказу Британии за деньги мусульман! Ведь ислам является источником дохода гандон-говнобритании.

  59. Правительство все правильно сделали… террористов надо мочить везде нечего с ними вести переговоры, а то эти теракты постоянно будут. Если и хотел Масхадов приехать правильно что его не пустили.Да Масхадов лучше чем Басаев, Радуев, Исрапилов но героя из него нечего делать… русских солдат он тоже убивал.

  60. Юрий, уважаю Вас! Спасибо за правду

  61. посмотрите еще и интервью с басаевым

  62. Я вот тоже сижу,злюсь на власть за нежелание проводить переговоры….а потом подумалось,что если идти на поводу террористов,терактов будет больше.

  63. я надеюсь ответственные за смерти сядут когда-нибудь.

  64. лайк Людям и Дудю. дизлайк терору и путину

  65. Столько противоречий! Сначала Милашина говорит что штурм начали силовики днем, а потом на 1:51:29 говорит, штурм готовился в ночь с 3 на 4:) Дучко сказала, что после первого взрыва в нее попал шурупчик. Шурупчики не бывают от гранатомета и огнемета! Милашина говорит, что бомба в кольце упала во время третьего взрыва, а свидетель Казбек Дзарасов в этом фильме https://youtu.be/CczDjLv2DfI говорит, что после 1 взрыва бомба на кольце была на полу. Более того, он утверждает что 1 взрыв был совсем на другом конце зала, чем Савальев утверждает.

  66. По поводу РПО-А Шмель и РШГ
    https://youtu.be/bkCbtWGOGDg

  67. Чечня-хуйня

  68. где же мудозвон?

  69. Зязиков. Проклят при рождении.
    Фамилия Зязиков. Зязя. Подсрачники и подзатыльники всю дорогу. Счастливую дорогу ссыкуна.

  70. Про Рязанский сахар сними, открой глаза народу, открой истинное лицо чекистов

  71. Юра спасибо за твою работу! Береги себя!

  72. а что делается в Сирии??????????

  73. Аушев мужик) Аллах1о сий дойл хьа

  74. Журналистка сказочная… просто пиздец. Такой бред несёт.

  75. Нет слов ! Одни слёзы!!!!

  76. после таких фильмов,я понимаю,что живу в самой конченной!стране!!

  77. Конченная дура-журналистка, которая даже не понимает ( или наоборот, очень хорошо понимает) что несёт, а ты Юра, трясёшь гривой на её ересь про то что спецназ причина гибели детей, а не боевики, которые подорвали взрывное устройство! Что Колыма- родина твоего, Юрик, страха, что этот журно-высер лживая ересь! Возьми интервью у живых спецов, кто освобождал заложников, сними видео о родственниках погибших спецов и так далее, а не слушай эту мразь из "Новой газеты". Такие как ты – лидеры мнений должны фильтровать и разбираться в информации, которую потом выкидываешь на простор интеренета!
    Получается, Басаев чуть ли не красавчик, а спецназ "Альфа" и "Вымпел" убийцы, стыдно Юра, очень стыдно!
    В который раз убеждаюсь, что твое призвание – это брать интервью у малолетних рэперков и прочих, Кисель тебя слопал, как интервьюера, а до этого Познер.
    Стыдно за таких пустоголовых или аффилированных журналюг, как ты!
    Отписываюсь!

  78. 1:59:36 даже террорист…………………………………

  79. Юра спасибо тебе

  80. 27 тысяч безмозглых Баранов поставивших дизлайки,пусть такая беда ни когда вас не коснется. Живите,но знайте: вы люди без собственного мнения!!!
    Юра, продолжай открывать нам глаза. Только не вздумай дать назад!!!! Никогда!!!!

  81. Лям лайков💪🏻

  82. Только за это надо Путина и Кадырова подвесить за ребро.

  83. Где россия,там беда,не все русские-русские!!!

  84. За что такой ужас для детей? 😢 все кто остались живы такие добрые не смотря что пережили……

  85. вДудь со слезами на глазах все это смотрела, за всю ту помощь что оказали пострадавшим большое уважение тебе и твоей команде. Вы большие молодцы. Успеха вам!!

  86. Мой отец лично был на командировке. Судите как хотите, но Аушев вывел тогда только детей богатых и знатных😬

  87. Юра красава

  88. Вдудь го про Чернобыль

  89. Очень грустно стало и стыдно за правителей нашего государства ,это дети ,а им просто было плевать ,все через одно место как всегда

  90. Братья осетины примите соболезнование😓

  91. Дудь , тебе вдуть?

  92. Дудь, ты реально пидор? Или просто дрочишь?

  93. Пидарасня, одним словом! Беги в процветающую Руину! Тебя Зеленкин заждался!

  94. Как же ты меня бесишь, чертила!

  95. Это как "Колыма" ? Очередной высер ? Даже смотреть не буду ..

  96. Реальное число просмотров порядка 40 млн, это успех! Юра будет президентом!

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