[ENG SUB] Vieraana Jesse “JerAx” Vainikka – EsportsCast

[ENG SUB] Vieraana Jesse “JerAx” Vainikka – EsportsCast

English subtitles by: MiiKo The heart of sports and esports And very much welcome to the EsportsCast This is our eighth episode In the studio we have me, Timo Tarvainen At the back of the sofa we have.. trying to do work business at the same time The Shitproducer just messaged me Anyway that’s Jussi Perälä And today our guest is one of the superstars of the esports scene Here in Finland and worldwide Two time champion of TI together with his team Jesse “JerAx” Vainikka, hello -hello hello thank you very much for the invite Great to have you here Well.. How’s your day been so far? I woke up to notice my phone’s battery was dead and I missed the alarm and woke 30 mins later and wondered what’s going on But I managed that and realised it wasn’t that long of a trip to this office that I feared it would be We’re in the middle of nowhere right now afterall Yeah our office is a bit far from everything, a lot of our guests have said the same But no one has lost their kidneys so far so that’s a positive thing Yup that’s true, no kidneys have yet been taken Not from you or me Don’t need that much finance Not at the moment yes Need to still see how we handle that.. But let’s try to not have as basic questions as usually Interviewers usually ask you so stupid or basic questions What did you mean by that? Well I wouldn’t say stupid but what I mean is people in general don’t really delve deep in to what the players have actually gone through in their lives And there’s not a lot of questions that go through those a bit deeper but there’s a lot of shallow They ask about what games you play and in that kind of style and to me those subjects are a bit annoying because I know that all players get the same questions, not just me And I don’t mean that I get offended in those moments but I’m just a bit sad on behalf of other players That this scene is still very new to outsiders and maybe the esports phenomenon is still unclear to most people But we’re going in the right direction People are slowly starting to realize that there’s something (in esports) Yes, glad we have this huge EsportsCast in Finland that tries to delve a bit deeper. Am I right Jussi? At least we’re trying and a lot of the times it also depends on how well we know the game or the player itself Well there’s only been the episodes with “natu” and “naSu” that have lasted more than an hour So let’s see how it goes today. We might also have some inside info from some players All right, okay I’m scared And why’s that? But about “natu” and “naSu”.. It’s pretty funny that about 10 years ago I I used to watch them play CS 1.6 and I thought about them as legends and now later on I myself have kind of gone past them in a sense which is pretty interesting I used to play a lot of CS 1.6 as a kid and and I was absolutely horrible 1K level Clan Base I sometimes even got to the plus side but absolutely terrible and all the time having a bit of a struggle and then watching some of naSu’s games and back then Team Roccat used to be huge When the team was formed and they played incredibly compared to my own level So you switched to a much easier game (Dota 2) No I switched to a much more difficult game but -Difficult in a different way Yeah I can admit (Dota) is a much more difficult game You can always have a discussion This could also be the same as comparing ice hockey with football Not exactly but Dota and CS are so different games True -Yes We have this kind of inside info. This might go back a couple of years We heard that you were in the Finnish Navy in Upinniemi In 2012 yes In the Navy’s transport fleet if this is correct? I can’t really remember the official names That doesn’t sound exactly correct but.. I don’t think it was transport Someone’s been lying to us We were requested to ask you what it was If you were in the transport division, what it was like but.. I’ve heard it’s a bit more relaxed But looks like you weren’t there I don’t remember the naming but that sounds very foreign to me but I was in the Finnish Navy and In the beginning it was a multi purpose vessel Louhi And we were the second batch of recruits there There was one group before us on a brand new ship And that ship was at the time Finland’s biggest investment for the Navy And we sailed around on that We were thinking if you got a chance to play Dota while serving I did get to play that as well back then I’m not sure how much I’m allowed to tell I can admit that nightwatch.. 4 hours every single night Let’s put it like this 1/3 of the watch shifts was not in the middle of the night And they basically assume that you are responsible for the safety onboard You walk around the ship and make sure nothing happens and then someone Some few individuals might have been playing video games then Let’s just say I hope the president doesn’t contact me now the Invitation to the President’s Castle last year It didn’t go as planned.. “Jesse you better come visit” “Let’s try this again” How long did you serve (in the Navy)? 9 months And the time in the fleet.. Was it that we specialized 2 months of specializing training I think it was 3 months of training and then the specialization. And then I got on the fleet Or got to where they chose the people on to the fleet That took around 2 months and on the ship we were For 3 or 4 months A lot of the times A lot of the times esports players and prodigies.. Often Finnish military service can interrupt a good training cycle but.. So how about in your case? You were already playing Dota then But uh How did you feel that Did your service make your training a lot harder? Well I didn’t actually play Dota back then, I played Heroes of Newerth before that A very similar game to Dota and.. I think we were in a tournament in Sweden near the end of the year and then our team our team got broken. We were at DreamHack then and came fourth This was in 2011 I think or maybe in 2010 Yeah I think it was in 2011 and I went straight to the Navy after that and it was.. pretty obvious and.. I had prepared for it (the service) mentally I knew that was going to happen and I didn’t think about my career because it wasn’t a career back then we were just playing and we had gotten quite a lot of succes from the games It wasn’t anything special then, it was just fun to compete at the time and it was something I liked doing but it wasn’t something I thought would earn me money or anything Then it came time to go to the Navy and I felt that it was the right time I hadn’t gotten into any schools, I hadn’t even applied to any I had only been playing and then.. our games and that team came to an end and I thought “now’s my time to go” and get the service out of the way What was the HoN scene back then? The game wasn’t around for that long before it was ended League of Legends pretty much ate HoN’s playerbase as far as I can recall it What was the question? HoN was big at the time when LoL’s popularity started to grow incredibly fast, am I right? Did the HoN scene die out at the same time as you were about go to the Navy? I don’t really remember those times with LoL. I also played that game while in service I’ve played around 200 games of LoL and I.. kind of liked the game back then but I can’t remember it back when I was still playing HoN because HoN was quite a fresh game around that time and I hadn’t really even thought about other games back then and then Dota 2 came out I think in.. -2013? I don’t think so -Wasn’t it in 2013? I think there was.. -Wasn’t that the official release year.. I’ll quickly google it -Yeah you can google that but I think the Beta was already out while I was still in the Navy some people were already playing it around that time “published on July 9th 2013” But the Beta must have lasted a lot longer because the game was in “Beta” for a long time Yeah -in the Beta phase So I guess that is just around the time of the official release 2012 to 2013 maybe I think they were showing Beta games back then because I had heard of Dota then but hadn’t gotten to play it yet because I hadn’t played Dota 1 for a long long time And they’re really different games, Dota and HoN. When you look at the mechanics “the open Beta started two years prior” (of release) what 20? -2011 was the start of Open Beta and before that there was Closed Beta Yeah yeah yeah something like that But so it was pretty quick that Dota came around for you? Yes pretty much after my service I started playing and felt that a lot of other players had transitioned as well all those game launches are a chance to really break out as a player and I feel that that’s a very typical way of getting in to a competitive scene maybe even the easiest way that when a game breaks out you’re in it from the start and then you get in to groups of others also playing the game a lot you get inside the scene and play and discuss with others and I think that really drives you into groups that are passionate about the game and then maybe you break out but that’s always a little.. Do you feel like it was easier to get into the scene back then than if a new player would start playing Dota now? If you start playing Dota now you have no chances I don’t mean to crush any dreams but.. you’ll need to play for quite some time to get your mechanics on the same level as current pros and additionally there’s some pro players that have been playing for 10-15 years sine Dota 1, and that experience There’s some meta games from 10 years ago that are still happening in today’s games and then there’s that experience taking you a long way and that has also kept the Dota scene very stable It’s very difficult to stand out with just your individual skills nowadays but it’s more of a team effort and tactics that garner success How about then.. I don’t really watch Dota myself Mostly just TI really You said that there needs to be a lot of knowledge of old metas so how could a new player get into the scene? Is there a lot of new players coming in regularly? Or is it that when they turn 20, they’ve already played Dota for 10 years? since they were around 10 years old Well in my opinion.. I was for example talking to “ana” and he’s been playing since he was 12 years old and he broke out when he was around 16 or 17 So he’s also been quite devoted through all those years and most of the general public don’t understand that the players who have started at a very young age might have been playing the game for 10-12 hours every single day basically That’s completely absurd and.. There’s not really a shortcut to fame or that you’d get there through connections because.. it takes so much and then you should have also been playing some other games as well You can take a lot from one game to another For example I feel that a CS pro player could get into Dota a lot faster and really understand the concepts and different power levels Then there’s also all the details of the game that really shape the way Dota is played Yeah because there’s so much small things in Dota Yes and all of them affect the way it’s played so many small things like a certain spell works against a pkp and that changes the meta between those two heroes or between the item and the hero and some heroes are just bad because their spells don’t penetrate a pkp There’s magic immunity and it deals 0 damage or doesn’t stun or something like that Small things like those just make some heroes good in the meta That must also be a skill you need your experience for and also that you know to look for right things in a game new players that have been playing for only a couple of years can’t see the bigger picture? That takes.. yeah it’s the experience exactly. The bigger picture usually well I’ve learned the bigger picture through older players who try to repeat the importance and share (the knowledge) It’s usually.. We talk about going one direction as a team and going for the bigger picture and we try to remind ourselves what the team goal is Because there’s so many individual goals in a game which you.. and you easily get tunnel vision but then when you need to also play with your team and for the win you need to remind yourself that these are important things for all your teammates These are things you only refine while being in a team When you’re playing solo q by yourself you’re not getting any bigger picture It’s not even in your interest to see what the teammates are doing because you can affect the outcome with your own individual skill a lot more Can you really improve your skills in solo q or does it just suddenly show up that that they are a good player and understand the bigger picture if if they truly get that and play for the team.. Could you actually pick a player up from there? like a player that would get all that? I don’t think you’d have enough time to form that because There’s a whole different meta in solo q. People play a lot differently Players are maybe trying to mimic what the pros are doing They don’t necessarily get why some things are done the way they are Why those are good plays and.. You only start to develop those skills when you’re competing seriously and when you’re playing against good teams that have more polished tactics either at that point or before it I talked about the experience so the meta games I mentioned before can reflect 5-10 years back There’s been some meta where spesific two heroes have worked well together and 5 years from that the same meta is played again and that’s really bizarre in a way but that’s just how Dota is played and then when there is a meta game and certain heroes are picked and they’re playing split push for example. Certain heroes start to suddenly be better or worse in the meta and then you remember all of these things through experience and all of this works together as a whole It’s really funny how you can bring certain things to for example Counter-Strike that for example fnatic in 2010 Older players know that it means you’re running through a certain route on the map Inferno for example but when it comes to younger players they don’t understand.. That you can call a strat with just one or two words and that means there’s certain grenades flying in and so forth.. Is it like that in Dota as well? you can read the game better through that? You pick specific heroes and items right? Well yeah.. -Is it like that? Yes, most of it is based on picked heroes that’s where the meta game is usually based on When you pick specific heroes you also know what to do with them. So really.. Then usually if some heroes are really strong they’re banned almost all the time and some heroes are picked because you can use them for a variety of roles for example in TI9 we first picked a hero and then we can use that in three different roles The enemy’s thinking “I have no clue what they’re going to do next” We just try to pick our two heroes and then we go “Oh they’re doing that so we’ll do this” and it works like.. that there’s certain tricks we try to pull off to get an advantage and usually you just push that we try to gain more information than the enemy and then utilize that There’s uh.. you spoke a lot about playing for the team, the team spirit and so on but how do you see that your own mindset has evolved from let’s say when you got out of the Navy? so what kind of.. What has been your core values and aproach when it comes to Dota since the time you started playing? In the early days I felt that I needed to be strong individually It’s been my biggest interest for many many years. And.. I hadn’t maybe understood that it wasn’t really that important back then And maybe I was also missing the people telling me the bigger picture so then I just used to center on myself and I feel like I had a pretty slow trajectory to the top meaning my individual form. I was maybe even lacking in some aspects when compared to others. That’s how I felt at least and it took me.. I’ve always felt that things take more time with me than with others to get in on some things but then but then eventually when I give myself time I start getting results and I also feel that.. I’ve been playing Dota for so long that there’s been enough time and that has brought me.. brought me a lot of good things but I mean I started with a very individual approach and felt that that felt like the most important thing for me back then Uhm through the years has there been.. let’s say before your first TI win but also after that have you noticed a shift in your approach to the game or has it stayed the same throughout? since the beginning? No I don’t think it has stayed the same. I’m constantly evolving and I feel that I’d say.. Before the TI of 2018 I had a lot of visions about the bigger picture and I started to think about it a lot more Because I have that kind of a role in the game that demands it a lot With certain things.. For example if you die at a specific time or like that then your team will fall behind considerably Your teammates can’t really act on the map and Then there’s also so many single things that can have a huge affect on how your team can react or if you can initiate in team fights and like that Those are some things I’ve been focusing on these past couple of years When I do right things at the right time with my team’s interest in mind then it’s usually been that has been the most important thing for me lately How would you describe your role inside and maybe also outside the game? Well I feel like a have a lot of time to.. We can talk about the different resources that are in Dota so there’s the three core players that farm They focus on “Okay my core is this and the enemy’s core is that” “how can I get the upper hand?” That already starts while you’re picking the heroes But then their.. their.. amount of how well they can observe the game, look at the map and pay attention to their teammates That’s a lot less than in my own role. I have a lot more time to think about the bigger picture and I’m able to I’ve made that an important thing and I use a lot of time to think “what’s most important to my teammates” and “what could do a lot of harm to the opponent?” a lot of small things like that and when you do a lot of them well it starts to get gets us towards our goals and My role has a lot of lots of movement and heavily focused on if I have a teammate I’m joining him for different actions or then I’m the one trying to start actions so my teammate can join me I’m the one combining things when it comes to skirmishes Which are small.. How would I say this in Finnish.. skirmishes with the enemy and my role is mostly focused on those and when it comes to team fights, I usually have a hero that’s for starting the battles or a one that tries to gain an upper hand with a position for example that we’re uphill and the enemy is downhill for example So things like that are mostly what my role has evolved to Okay so is it also like that after games and practises when you get out of.. so does your role of holding the team together also continue outside the game? Not really, we have maybe two stronger players in that sense; Johan and Sébastien and they have the bigger vision of what our goals are whereas I’m just trying to move towards it and to get my teammates there as well and of course they also get a bit lost sometimes and then that person needs some help from us so then that’s either me helping them or someone else helping me and so on but I wouldn’t say I’m.. in that role outside the game really but during games I’m activated more in that way I’m also the kind of person to always speak up if I feel like something’s important to me and most of the time.. well I feel like that has always worked for me Yes How about then.. Your often described as having a fun atmosphere in the team and that that has also been emphasized so how’s that actually inside the team, are you playing.. How would I put this.. How high do you set a fun limit when it comes to reaching your goals? It’s super diccifult to phrase this question but but do you get what I’m after? Yes.. well.. If we start from the fact that main our goal is to improve as a team and play together as well as possible and at certain times we aim to win. And we try to achieve that through improvement I feel like having fun isn’t really something we.. We don’t really tell ourselves “Hey let’s have some fun now” you don’t honestly really see that from us but it pretty much happens by itself and I feel like most of it is based on what OG is to us Our team is solely based on honesty, opennes and enabling of individuals so we’re aiming to All the players of the team have chance to be who they are and then we’ve chosen different people that we want to work with and when everyone is giving us their true self I feel that that has led to people being very free and they don’t feel bad about mistakes and no one gets offended if we’re having a bit of fun because we’re not in this too seriously and maybe that’s the kind of thing where we differ from other teams Others take the game a lot more seriously and they might not.. That’s most likely heavily based on what’s going on in the team’s discourse are they watching a replay going “let’s not do that but do this and why didn’t you do that” and so on There can be a lot of tension and people might even refrain from who they are That’s how I feel at least when looking at other teams and our team doesn’t have any of that we can just be relaxed and.. say what they’re feeling and and if there’s any tension rising or that people disagree. We try to solve all those right then and there We’re trying to have a joint understanding on things and That sounds a lot like what you hear of ice hockey and football that you need game courage and enjoyment Daring to take risks and you know when there’s good chances to go further and win something from this than to lose and give the edge to the opponent Daring to take risks and having fun doing it because that takes you a lot further Have you also found the right good players around you that keep.. guys that are nice to hang out with? Is it just by chance that you have so much fun playing together? Yeah or.. I feel like Dota is the big combining factor. We might not.. We’re not the world’s best friends outside the game or but we do get along very well and I think that’s very important and I also think it’d be silly to assume everyone being best friends and and “Yay this is so cool” and a bit of American fake TV type of stuff That’s not really us But do you all have a good understanding in the game that “let’s go with this first” and rest comes later? Well yeah, of course we go game first That’s the whole reason that we’re together We are all in that team and everyone understands that But when it comes to taking risks and things like that, we actually take a lot more of them than other teams in general and I also feel like that’s a bit of a bad habit for us That when we’re in very important situations and players feel like that’s relevant for example in our TI games. That’s when people naturally.. Normally they would take more risks but at those moments they tend to withhold because they understand that that now there’s a lot more at stake and if you compare that to If you look at other teams that don’t have as risky a playstyle They also tend to withhold at those moments so it’s pretty much a natural reaction Meaning that they’re taking even fewer or no risks at all And that can be a very concerning effect So is this exactly what affected positively on your second TI win Do you have more game courage to take more risks within a game If the others withdraw because I remember at least that people.. people tend to.. People tend to ruin their own game People don’t dare to play normally or play aggressive and are afraid to do any game moves? I feel like on a team level people know when to take risks and when not to but from an individual standpoint players are not willing to go for risky plays that much so it’s more on an individual level? -Yeah I believe it’s mostly that and I feel that we haven’t had that problem in tournaments, no one’s afraid of.. “what if I do something wrong” or things like that I think we’re aware of what kind of risks we’re taking in some moments. Everyone understands and.. but that’s-.. I think we’re very lucky that we have such confident players which allows us to take even more risks and no one’s afraid of that And about that risk taking ability and adaptation to difficult situations Is that where you get your skill of winning? So after the first TI win and going to the next season and next TI and also winning that so Did you feel that the first win was an advantage or more of a burden in your second TI? That’s interesting.. I feel that That’s also very personal. I myself felt the first TI win a lot more emotional and more heavier. I thought that.. my life kind of stopped and I couldn’t really do anything in my life because we talked about having a 4 month break after that. “Well what the hell am I supposed to do during it” 4 months? That’s a hell of a long time We had a very long break and now we’re basically doing the same again So uh We had a long break and all I thought was “I don’t really know what else to do than play Dota” and also I had heavily committed to the game before that time I had been playing very actively which I don’t usually do that much at least So it felt a lot like the ground fell out from underneath my feet as a result of the win. And uh then There just wasn’t any backup Then for example.. This is based on that I wasn’t really keeping touch with my friends nor my relatives or family Perhaps I didn’t see other things as important as to Dota And.. When you only have one important thing in your life and that gets taken away from you so you’re only left with emptiness and I feel that’s what many players go through because They’ve put so much emphasis on gaming and that game Understandably but it’s not really healthy and at those times I myself felt emptiness and.. What did you really do on the first break? If you had ground fall underneath your feet? Well I thought a lot if I still want to play. That was one big topic that I’m also thinking of right now again.. Then.. Then I also thought what could motivate me again because I had no motivation anymore I couldn’t really grasp on why I would still want to play this game I’m interested in so many games so why would I want to play Dota specifically? questioning myself that way Uh then.. What else did I think then.. Then I thought about what my teammates were going to do Then I thought could I do something meaningful in my life I don’t believe that I’ll play this game forever and I don’t think this is exactly self-fulfillling and I know that will change some day so when is it going to change and what is it that I want to do then? That kind of thoughts And so you now have.. the same as last year, a few months break? Yes.. we’ll start playing again at the end of January During this break have you.. Or have you been in touch during this time in general? Uh there’s been some group calls with the whole team. There’s a lot of next contracts we have to go through and what changes we want to do and we’ve also talked about sponsor deals All kinds of things OG does Then we’ve thought about what other people want to do. Same as last year Do they want to continue? Do they wanna do something else? because as I said OG is based on honesty and openness and if a person feels like maybe Dota is not for them, they have a chance to just leave and That’s true with all our players. We have that power and we have that responsibility that if we do that, it’s okay and that’s it and everyone has understood that from the start What’s the OG organization like? Because you’re also making the sponsor deals and so on so how does that.. I don’t know what OG is like so is that from top down or? a CEO going through things with the rest or.. What’s OG’s business based on? OG was originally formed by players and then we used to have a player called “Fly” that has since gone In summer of 2018 his girlfriend used to be our team manager and he had a lot of authority.. He was basically the background person for us Now if I compare it to the current state, Sébastien’s brother Charlie He’s been heavily in the team’s background and then we’ve had a manager but OG is player owned and Sébastien and Johan have had a significant role on the organization’s side and they’ve been running the business side and the Dota game side simultaneously and It’s mostly based on our desire to create a transparent organization. If we get a sponsor deal, any of the players can ask “Okay how much is OG getting and how much a player is getting?” “Why is my salary not rising?” You can ask completely random questions and you’ll get an answer right away and it’s solely based on that we want the “OG mentality” also to the business side It might not be the biggest org by worth but everyone understands that we’re not just trying to make money but we want to do things that mean a lot to us and we have certain values that we want drive and we’ll continue with that That does sound pretty cool. I mean.. So do you also have a big say in the org’s doings? That.. You don’t have to answer but do you also have a stake in the org that all the other players have as well? Yes I do -So do all the players own the same amount or? -No, it differs from player to player Okay so does it also depend on when you’ve joined the team or? That depends on how much investment people have had in OG as a company, when they’ve started playing.. for example “ana” came back right before TI So maybe.. And he’s anyway been focusing on gaming so you can assume that.. his ownership is smaller and.. yup.. So is it based on how much interest you have and you can sell a bigger part and so on? Well that hasn’t happened yet but theoretically yes If a player leaves OG and is not interested in his future then maybe his stock and or ownership disappears and then you think about -So that’s somehow like.. it sounds like confusingly good that it’s so transparent, open and honest so I give my props Well.. There’s maybe the problem of trying to take this format to the business world because we invest in people so We all know each other, we know what we want and we’ve been playing in the same team together Everybody knows that it’s in their best interests to also act nice towards others as well and then in the business world you just think about the money You want to make profit after a while You want to reach certain goals concerning money and stuff like that Then usually the first changes concern people You see co-operation negotiations and after that 300 people are laid off. “Okay this is what we’re doing” Doesn’t really sound that.. open and honest to me. You get a feeling that people are just pawns “that person didn’t really matter in this company. Anyone could have done his job” “why don’t we just replace them with a robot?” So really In OG everything’s based on people having value and we respect what everyone are and everybody’s doing what they see as meaningful That differs quite a lot from Blizzard for example. They’ve had the best results ever yet they laid off a 1000 people They just threw them out. -Yes “We did a lot of profit yes but not enough” “Yeah not enough” or “too little so we have to fire a 1000 people” Yes. -But the way you handle business sounds really good. That must take a lot of.. That must also mean that your org is the right size. I’d say you have around 10-20 employees am I right? Not even 20. Just a bit over 10 I’d say. -Yeah that’s what I meant that if you start going a bit bigger from there.. do you start having trouble to even handle that many people? Yeah that would need a lot of structure for the org and maybe some hierarchy as well. Everything also depends on the type of people on board Some people work better in certain environments and I can imagine this doesn’t work for everyone Doesn’t in no way work for everyone and we don’t also take whoever on board with us I can add to that that people have the best position to create contacts in a 100-150 employee company Somewhere between that when there’s still a chance to know everyone by name But beyond 150 you can forget it.. you can’t really manage it anymore, at least not this way Maybe related to that Supercell (Finnish game studio) also works similarly to OG, they have small game teams They run the whole game environment which has millions of players and information works with everyone being in the same office and.. I suggest looking in to that if you’re interested. And we we work like.. pretty much with the same principals. In Supercell for example management doesn’t come and tell you that “throw that game away we’re not interested” or that.. “what have you been doing here for the past year?” or that “you need to go away because you haven’t done anything” They’re not like that but they choose people that they see valuable for a certain game and they take the best talent in the industry and and then.. they basically create those game teams and then if people see that they fit in a team, they join that project and and then they make games and sometimes the games work and sometimes they don’t and “and that’s it” -So a bit like controlled chaos -Yes -But you mentioned there that.. Dota isn’t necessarily the thing you feel self-fulfilling for you so now that we’re talking about companies and OG is it possibly working within OG or within a company would that be self-fulfilling for you in the future? I’ve thought a lot about if running an organization is for me It’s not really in my interest to run let’s say a Dota team I don’t really want to be in.. I don’t think I want to be a coach or a manager I don’t perhaps want to be the CEO so to me perhaps what my possible role would include.. that would mean a lot to me and perhaps I haven’t figured out yet what what could be the right exact role for me in an organization but I mean there is potential and well OG is very close to me and my thoughts about what a nice work environment should be and and maybe based on that, it has been easy to take part in everything but then what I could do in the future is.. that’s a question of its own Well I recommend looking at “natu” and how he’s stayed in the scene He’s been able to do his own thing with ENCE’s marketing and found his own self-fulfillment He’s doing that as a full-time job in ENCE. Doing his own thing There’s a lot of opportunities -Yes Next up.. I don’t know what Jussi thinks of this but I want to go to this.. horrible day that all Finns.. -Nice.. I know what this is about -Yes but We don’t necessarily want to go through it the way it is so but.. So we’re talking about the f*cking “tax day” where every Finns’ taxed revenue from last year is published and the headlines are everywhere Yes -Not interested So what do you.. What do you think about this as a concept? that Finnish news sites cover all these made revenues and go over names in general? I think that there’s the bad side of all of it being published at the same time so People get that “aha moment” or jealousy. There’s a bit too much emotions going through people and then Some people think of the day as a good thing, it creates a bit of drama “aha that person made that much money last year” “why didn’t that person earn more?” “oh that celebrity is not relevant because..” when you see the numbers but I feel like there is a point but it’s not about the “tax day” but more about the thought of discussing earnings more openly in Finland and I think that’s something that hasn’t been discussed and this doesn’t feel like the right way that you think like that only once a year Because I also thought about if I want to give an interview based on this and I thought that “this must be good thing and I get to bring it up that we should talk more openly about money” and that openness is a good thing when you’re in you’re at your workplace and know how much your colleague is earning so you can openly discuss about it so then “ah he’s earning more than me, why?” That it’s an open disccussion. Then you go to your employer and ask “why it’s like this?” and that it’s okay but There’s just the problem that when.. You have for example a business and you’re doing the same thing as your rival. One is being paid more than the other you’ll never get to hear that, it’s not possible no one’s going to tell you that. And then the “tax day” comes and you look “okay so there’s a doctor.. “how much are they earning? Oh he’s making 3000 euros a month more even though..” like so for example that’s just a random example then you’re just left thinking “but why?” and you can’t go to your employer and say.. or maybe it’s just the Finnish culture where that’s not okay And I see that as a big concern because those are exactly the kind of situations where where you competitively bid your employer and you compare it to others in the same field and think that “those others are probably doing a lot better and why is that?” and that’s good Yes And also maybe.. Well what do you think about.. that I can legally go to my local tax office despite how much either of you are earning. So I can go “Jesse Vainikka, Helsinki. Can I see..” “Jussi..” -“Uusimaa” You live in Helsinki right? -Yes -Then “Jussi Perälä, Varsinais-Suomi” and they give me all the details. So what are your thoughts on everyone being able to do that? Does either of you have thoughts on this? Well I think that’s a good thing because if you look at US for example we don’t know.. I’m not trying to state anything political but Trump doesn’t want to say anything about how much he earns and where So if you’re in such a visible position, I think it’s a good thing that we’d know but then again when it comes to your earnings and some Finnish CS players’ incomes are being boasted on headlines Okay that’s where you create that drama you spoke of That’s a good way of getting trash tabloid articles. “Seiska” is a good example of those I miss that site but uh.. They sometimes also mix income with.. what has been salary and what was winning income In ice hockey for example they only talk about how much a player has earned salary And now people think that because you’ve won TI “holy hell he’s making a lot of money with that” but it’s not exactly that straight forward. There could have been.. -this could be just speculation but -your salary has at some point been 500 euros a month for example but now after a TI win it seems like puff that now you’ve earned 5 million within a year where actually it’s just one big tournament win This could be hard to say but there could be for example.. If we look at a Chinese pro team or something like that, the players could be making.. significantly less than say a student in Finland in general Yes. But I revert to your question, I think that’s okay. It drives.. people to be more open and I think that’s you have a right to that and in my opinion.. In my opinion the problem with this whole tax thing is that it’s very bloated and eople have a lot of emotional weight on money which is stressful and when I have less stress but others have more, I get a feeling that “why does Jesse Vainikka, a video game player earn two million out of it?” “yet I.. I work 8 hours a day” “7 days a week and earn this much” Then people start comparing that and then think that.. “Well..” This doesn’t really tell the whole picture when it comes to different fields of work for example Different lines of work just have huge differences when compared So certain lines of work just have more money in them and Nowadays your amount of followers can also have a huge impact. How much you social media impact you might have and.. like.. how well does it show in livestreams. If you’re watching TI for example, it has millions of viewers 20 000 attendees live Those kind of things really matter and people don’t really.. They might think that.. “that’s not an important job” but.. What can I really say to that? “Well I don’t think your job..” Well yeah We’re aware of this effect. I also often joke about us not doing “real” work and If we seriously.. -Because this isn’t “physical” work If we seriously based on facts start to look at jobs that are.. reasonable in terms of things essential for staying alive then there’s not really that many lines of work there isn’t actually that many realistic options really But maybe.. If I can still revert to the money People perhaps just don’t get it when they see a well earning athlete, how much that person has devoted to their sport It could take 90% of an athlete’s whole life Everything revolving around that sport. Only 10% is left for free time, kids, family and friends and then.. And then if I think about my own life, I’ve worked at a warehouse I was at work for 8 hours and immediately when the clock stroke 4 I went home I couldn’t have cared less My devotion to that company was exactly zero and that was purely.. Money was my only interest and.. It sucked that I spent 8 hours there every day I didn’t get to do things that were important to me. Things that I enjoyed But then you just have to understand how invested some people can be The fact that I’m on a gaming trip for a couple months and play for many hours a day and I’m all in every single day. I think about Dota all the time and I don’t know if that kind of life is really what people want So much depends on the person but this has so many things attached to it On top of the scene having so much money and This is my choice. This is what I’ve been doing and this what I enjoy doing and this is super cool. -That’s kind of the same when you look at what your boss is earning they’ve dedicated their whole.. They might have pledged their own house at one point for example but nowadays they’re earning a bit more It’s all about sacrifices. If you screw up something, then you screw up Yes. -So that’s also.. doesn’t always.. Everyone should look at themselves and think about how devoted you are when you talk about it You’re fully devoted to what you’re doing right now and you’ve taken a lot of risks and made some sacrifices I’m sure Well yeah.. No one.. No one really asks about those but they think that “Right now Jesse is making this much money and I’m making that much” and it’s usually the “tax day” that starts all this It’s a big waterfall of thoughts. -Have you gotten any mean messages or people personally messaging you with some comments? Not personally, I haven’t gotten any like emails. People do ask for money in social media With private messages like for example “I live in Ukraine, could you give me 10 000?” and so on and I’m like I don’t really know what to say to those people. I actually feel bad for them because their mindset is perhaps money driven and they think that they might think it’s okay to just ask from someone That doesn’t really.. I don’t know It does really feel stupid yeah How does social media show up in your life? Do you get any mean messaging ENCE for example has been getting a lot of mean comments because they haven’t gotten big results So have you also gotten to enjoy social media’s dark side? And in what way? -Well in the beginning of my career my was a pretty bad player. At least I felt that my teammates were a lot better and I was the one to blame and the team’s black sheep Every team has that member at one point but I haven’t been that for a long time which is lucky And people perhaps feel that since Finns are such introverts, it’s somehow cool and And we might not be that colorful people which in a way makes others feel sympathethic towards us You mean abroad? -Yes yes and maybe that has made its own way.. If I’d be the bad mouthed player in a team and would want to make my opinions heard like to a broader audience then it would easily be either or but most oftenly the or For example Sébastien who is a really great guy is just often put in a position where he’s strongly brought forth his own ideas -which are really good things because those move the scene forward- but then most of the people only see the dark side of this and then they remember that “But Sébastien also said this in a public game” He told someone to screw themselves in his stream for example And that’s the thing they see at the forefront and they miss the whole thing because they’re only thinking about the negative sides Very often people are left with.. -Negative thoughts -Yeah the only things they remember are negative I don’t know if our brains work in a way that prefers negative thoughts over positive and that’s why we remember those better I feel like there’s certain emotional bonds with people. You’re.. You’ve first seen a person in a specific situation and you remember that through a certain emotion but you maybe don’t think that they could have changed or “Is this just my emotions talking” when you’re writing something horrible to someone And then you usually know that they don’t have everything okay “not that good of a morning” -That’s really funny that when you look at people like Richard Lewis for example and how they comment on “you are having a bad moment but try to reflect that on yourself” “don’t try to push it on any celebrities” You only see them as a nametag and a name and try to relieve your own bad feelings But now that we talked about ENCE for example, how much do you watch other games than Dota or other Finns? Not that much I’d say I don’t really follow.. Or the longer I’ve played Dota the less I’ve watched other teams.. very little about the whole scene but mostly just the gaming aspect But then I’ve watched “Serral” and seen what’s going on with ENCE and they were doing very well before at least they had a huge rise to the top I felt very happy for ENCE that it was a very good thing for the Finnish esports scene and I’ve also heard about “Taimou” and some old 1.6 names it’s kind of funny to see the same names that have transfered to ENCE’s management or marketing side and that’s nice to see It’s nice to see familiar nametags and hear stories and So should start having some networking parties for older guys in the scene that could really be a good idea now that it’s company Christmas party season well there is the cruise coming. -But we’re a bit late for the Christmas party season because Well yeah but let’s keep that in mind for next year I hope this is not the venue Gladly we’re moving away from this studio so it won’t be here I bet we’ll have it in Veikkaus Casino or somewhere like that Let’s take Veikkaus in to this as well Have you been doing any sports or something like that lately? I bet you don’t follow others closely since it’s mostly about yourself Mostly just focused on myself. Nowadays I have a lot of thoughts about how to improve myself and live healthier and and then If I feel bored at home I might check on social media or like that.. but.. But I try to force myself to think that “Right now it’s me first” and try very hard to.. Because I feel that when I feel better what I am and I can live depending on my values and create strong values then I can give also a lot more to others Have you also taken.. You talk a lot about yourself so is that also your.. You have a coach and a psychologist am I right? Yes. Mia Stellberg was with us in the TI bootcamp and then the TI Okay so has that helped with.. So you have a psychologist with you.. a sports psychologist. -Okay A sports psychologist. -Doesn’t matter, it’s basically the same thing My apologies but How was she brought on board? Was it about focusing on your own work? When Mia Stellberg came on board we thought in the team before it that There’s a very strong mental side in this game and.. we felt that there’s some things that we as people don’t.. like inside the team.. don’t know how to solve some things or to act right some times and.. We’re just players after all. We don’t have a degree and then we thought that a professional could guide to a right direction in certain situations and then we took Mia Stellberg in.. In the beginning we mostly focused on people as individuals and what was important to them what kind of goals they have? what motivates them, what they think of their teammates? what do think about OG as a team? How have you gotten to this point? We thought on a very individual level and then after that we concentrated a lot on how we can share these thoughts with teammates about our own.. Because you can motivate others a lot by just telling what motivates yourself and when you have teammates that have been specifally chosen to the team and you like being with them so of course you listen and you get a lot out of it but then Maybe the biggest biggest thought about having a sports psychologist was that the players focus specifically on playing and but maybe we We push the importance of mental energy away and we maybe don’t think about how important during a tournament how to work well under pressure and receive the tournament well Make the stadium your own home or things like that And we perhaps don’t think how how big of an impact that can have on your performance on stage and and Mia was definitely a good option for this Instead of playing we spent time on “how can we perform as well as possible on stage in front of people?” “How do we react to that now?” “Has anything changed? What if we make a mistake?” “What happens if we perform?” and how we prepared for big games and.. how we prepared for that mentally and I feel that Mia gave some great points that specifically helped in that and I definitely feel like that was our strength in the latest TI We felt that we were mentally a lot stronger than others How have you felt that.. Do you think it has changed at some point.. of your career that when you walk on stage and see the crowd. Do you think that’s changed for you? No it hasn’t. -So it hasn’t? -To me.. To me it hasn’t really changed. I already knew pretty well how I’ve kind of discovered by accident on how I should act when if I walk on stage, you only see me looking forward I don’t look around thinking “what a cool crowd” that’s not me Do you still enjoy that moment or are you completely focused on your own doing? Do I enjoy it.. That’s a hard question. I do enjoy when there’s a lot of when there’s a lot at stake and you have the teammates you’ve been playing and improving with for a long time “Now we’re here and no we really need to deliver” Well I don’t really think that now we need to deliver but that it’s enough if we do what we’ve been doing until now and Those are some thoughts running through my head at those times but I don’t think “okay” “a million people are watching online and we’re surrounded by this many people” and I go like “wow this is so cool playing here with..” or that “now we’re getting some good games” or like that I play this game only for myself really. -So you have a kind of like.. so do you just “see your own monitor” and concentrate on your own doing? -Yes and I feel like that has worked well for me and that’s maybe a bit sad for myself since also my parents were in the stadium I can’t put any thoughts on them watching the game there I kind of shut everything else out. I just have the team But that must also be that mental strength which you need to concentrate because if you.. or do you have someone in your team who.. forgets their own doing and starts enjoying and waving to the crowd and admiring the.. all the people there? Well actually not anymore. People have changed a lot over time and I think that I used the one that didn’t know what to do at those moments and been searching the right thing to do and felt that “now I have prove to others that I’m a really good player” but then again that has nothing to do with Now I have to.. I’m simultaneously playing important games that mean a lot to me What others think about me at that moments doesn’t matter at all But it should be about what the team is thinking and definitely what you’re thinking yourself But we haven’t had any that kind of problems within this team So it.. Maybe you get used to it after having been in so many events and other tournaments like that so.. You do get used to people surrounding you and watching and that is really cool But then in those moments during games.. I myself don’t.. don’t pay attention to hardly anything while in a game and that’s a cold hard fact and I’ve accepted that and you’d maybe want to be more present but but I don’t also want to lose anything on my performance And that’s what the fans come to see. That a person performs in a best way possible You get incredible performances and that’s what they want That’s why it’s called top level sports -Exactly and that’s what I focus on and In the end that’s what people want to see and.. How about when.. “Topson” joined in.. I can’t remember when, was it last year? Wasn’t it.. At which point? Yes before TI8 so in Summer How about when.. He didn’t have that much experience so how come he wasn’t super nervous at TI? Or has he now gained more experience or? Did he have a lot more experience coming in to this second TI? Yes definitely, he’s handling the games a lot better now and maybe.. Topias has.. a trait that he’s a bit like Kimi Räikkönen (Finnish F1 driver) he says everything straight and then he doesn’t get distracted with things happening around him so he’s very confident with himself but then the.. first TI games for him were absolutely crazy it’s an emotional roller coaster for a player and you do notice that from a person and he didn’t.. think that he would be playing in TI against the world’s best teams a couple months prior We needed to qualify to TI and it was a very long road But so.. But he’s definitely grown as a person and that’s a very positive thing when you’ve witnessed that and been able to see it up close But I bet a person like him really fits a team like OG when you talked about the openness and like that He says what he’s thinking and doesn’t try to make it sound something else than what it is No and he gets annoyed himself if you start glossing over things so That’s also a.. Well I maybe don’t.. gloss over things that much but.. but that’s a good thing to have because it It affects what OG is and you easily try to be very nice to everyone and like that Not wanting to hurt someone. -Yeah but that doesn’t But it hurts a lot more if you don’t tell something. People don’t necessarily.. undestrand it in that moment but when you start to reason you see that it’s true Yes. Well.. How about now that.. I remember right before your first TI win you had just launched “” which had your own.. clothing line there and when you got the win I.. was really happy on how lucky you got with the timing Did you notice the win in sales figures? Yeah I can open the idea a bit more in a moment but yes it.. it was noticeable and of course the TIs have factored in it I’ve now had that twice after a TI and we also launched a TI edition shirt which I thought were really cool but so.. Yeah.. but maybe it wasn’t.. If we think about.. have I cared that we’ve sold well.. So I think it’s cool to give fans something special that you can’t give with other ways And that has been a good way.. For example the last TI shirt it had my autograph printed but people didn’t perhaps want that But when it comes to personal branding The interest has been lowering I don’t plan on continuing the line a lot longer And this is maybe based on.. I don’t perhaps.. I thought that personal branding was a really cool thing and there is a niche that players haven’t necessarily noticed Or there hasn’t been right people in the background that can make websites and online stores or that you could definitely start branding players more But it hasn’t really gotten to that point on an individual person level so there’s clearly.. What you’ve seen a lot in traditional sports but not yet as much in esports have we seen that but I mean I don’t plan to continue very long so I’m just going to keep it as is and if people want to they should definitely order merch and I think it’s very nice to give.. that to fans and then they post pictures with the merch on and that’s so cool to see When a guy from Indonesia buys and wears the merch for example There can be five guys with the same shirt and I think that’s a cool thing Well definitely. Do you have anything similar to that planned or? Personal branding? Well not really personal branding but there’s some projects Maybe I shouldn’t talk about them yet. They’re a bit more private stuff But there is a couple projects I’m involded in. I’ve been on break for 2,5 months so far after all so I do feel like there’s things I want to do but I’m not sure what types of projects I can hop on to I’ve been on some projects just to experiment a little but now I’ve gotten some things forward and and it’s definitely going to be seen in the future That’s a really good thing that you have a break at the end of the year where everyone gets to think how they really want to approach things and what they really want to do and what kind of opportunities there are because The world is a pretty open place after all so you can just follow your values and what you want to do Yeah maybe.. I criticize other teams on that there’s for example after last years TI there was There was only a couple weeks break before the next tournament’s qualifier and I was watching the other teams and thinking how in the hell can they.. “what’s you’re motivation going to the new season and..” I thought of that a lot and Perhaps.. Perhaps those.. teams were just formed as more open to play a lot more maybe they haven’t thought of TI as that big of a thing and perhaps they’ve just seen it a same kind of tournament than the others But of course perhaps it isn’t that because it’s a whole different thing if you’re in a TI arena or in a different tournament To me it was a bit crazy of some.. There were quite a lot of teams there and and a lot of them said later that they had a small burn out and But that’s of course something that happens with gaming because this is an interesting field when you think that because gaming is so fun and cool but everything you do too much.. it does start to take a toll on you How about when you said that the TI arena is so different.. How does it really differ so much from.. Because there isn’t really that much more people than in a major for example? What are the.. Is it just a different feeling when you play or? Yeah different feeling and.. I feel like there’s a lot more content created around TI and then of course.. there’s the Aegis Shield and that kind of little that.. There’s definitely something you can achieve that other tournaments don’t have and you can prove to yourself a lot better that “you can do it” maybe things like that and I think there’s a lot of interesting elements that are in every TI that there’s an ingame item displaying your name and all those kinds of cool things I think that It’s also a memory in a way I think that people see it as very important to them to reach that and see that you’re capable of it. I think it has a lot of things like that attached to it and TI has gained a certain reputation over the years and that’s clearly based on things like that Which one was more difficult to win? The first or the second TI? The first one definitely Okay, how was the second one easier then? Well the first one was.. there was a very long road We came from the open qualifiers and had the main qualifiers after that So first we had to qualify to a qualifier and then from there we got the TI and there we played a lot of games and of course a brand new team. We had just been playing together for a couple of weeks before the first qualifiers So we grew very much very much in a short period of time as a team and then we didn’t really know what things were good for us We had to feel out a lot from our teammates and like that and grow.. and then when we went to TI we had no expectations on how we would succeed. We had no idea.. Some practise games were terrible but some were really promising and then and then the group stage in TI went a bit half well, half badly And when we reached the stage there were some crazy games which were incredibly close on if we’d lose or win and.. an insane TI and like.. People were describing that if you were to make an anime movie out of it.. that the plot twists would be even crazier than in a standard anime movie that kind of talk and I thought “Well that really is..” and that’s something I’ve used in a couple resent interviews just because.. I think that’s very describing.. When you think about it right now I still have a hard time comprehending that it happened The second one was a lot better compared to that So the first one still feels like..? -Yeah it’s a complete utopia okay And looking back at the games I just think “okay.. super easy..” Maybe you still don’t believe in your own doing that happened in tha event Or that you do believe but just can’t comprehend that everything happened and went just right Yeah that’s really.. That really was an incredible experience and I will remember it for years to come through different aspects and that was maybe the most emotional tournament that I’ve played There were ups and downs all the way some games we just lost and you felt that you should have won and some games we won even though you felt that there’s no chance anymore absolutely crazy which one had a better after party? Or which TI you had the biggest celebration with the team? Let’s ask like this I think that after parties suck for us because they’re based on everyone being completely dead The first finals.. so 2018 We played the finals for 7 or 8 hours Well there was 5 games and everything and so then.. and after that people are.. people are in a full coma and then we needed to go to to a live show where we were interviewed. This was done both years These were the first times and we’ve now been in both We were there and in a complete coma. Said a couple of words to the viewers and then after that we thought that we should eat and then after that there was the after party that was in like The time was maybe 11 or 12 and we just weren’t excited and with zero energy Well what I meant was did you have any parties later after the tournament? to a successful tournament or to a successful season? We’re perhaps bad at celebrating. Maybe it’s just the culture of our team but we aren’t.. the kinds that party all night or people just don’t enjoy that But do you eat and drink some cake and champagne and enjoy the moment afterwards? I think that we enjoyed going over the games and that was our after party not really with food and drinks or by partying Maybe that’s just has a smaller role Radically different compared to say the CS:GO side What do you mean? -Yeah I’ve also heard about the CS:GO side and best regards from them to all alcoholics If you’ve watched our podcast episode with “nasu” we go through a couple of those after party events -Damn I need to watch that We didn’t get to go through everything so I think we need to have him on for another episode I think we had that in Dota sometimes in.. So I remember some afterparties from 2015 and those were pretty crazy. But after that people have just.. grown and become adults Well I wouldn’t say that.. Maybe it’s not only about becoming adults but maybe.. Being more serious about your work? Yeah and maybe the afterparties aren’t that well planned out or they’re not aimed to go fully out of hand and perhaps we haven’t been given that good opportunities to that and than what I can imagine on the CS:GO side where people actually also value those after parties and that’s also their way of celebrating these tournaments and and maybe that kind of.. I don’t think that it’s only about them getting out of hand but there’s a lot of discussion with the players and so on What I can really say is that CS players really.. at least in Finnish tournaments everyone knows each other You don’t see everyone face to face that often so it’s nice to have everyone there and it’s “a big reunion” you could call it.. But a fun reunion, not that kind of bad reunion where.. you see your old bullies or people you don’t like but that’s something where everyone just gathers and Yeah we do have that same. Some people know each other from very bizarre relations Like some Russians and Chinese can be in relations with each other. It’s very interesting how some people know each other I used to also have.. when I went to play in Korea.. I met a Korean while at an after party and later I flew there to play Which was pretty.. fun.. But that’s really making those connections which sadly often happens with alcohol even nowadays and how you can get new connections in those after parties, in the more relaxed ones at least some new teams and new opportunities at least Oh yes Jussi and Jesse. I think that.. I think we’ve gone through all the topics. Do you still think there’s something.. -I thought that there’s still.. you had the team “4 Anchors + Sea Captain”? -Yes -So how about could we.. rise to the same level in Dota.. Since we have Havu and ENCE and similar teams like that Could a team from here rise to a.. -A fully Finnish team? -A fully Finnish team yes -Well there’s “Laged” has a big.. So he’s that “4ASC” so he was then the manager of “4 Anchors + Sea Captain” He has a big interest in making that team and I think we’ve discussed it annually That “when are we going to get that Finnish Dota team?” First we get some top talents it but it hasn’t happened yet and.. But if we think that do we have the players for it? -Well yes if you think that Topias, me, “MATUMBAMAN” and then there’s “Buugi”, “Peksu”, “Okcya” So there’s a roster right a way -And I don’t know if “Niqua” is. I don’t really know about his background But there are enough names if you want a really.. a really good team. -But let’s say that that team would constantly reach top 10 So would there be a chance if you’d get all the names you mentioned? And have them playing in a same team Maybe? -I don’t know really. Because Finns are a bit.. We’re maybe missing.. Now that I listed those names Missing a player that controls the bigger picture so someone should take that role and then it might get a bit experimental and Finns maybe.. In general really.. don’t know how to stay open in a situation like that at least in the previous teams in Dota that it’s difficult to come out with things from people and we haven’t really gotten to the wanted level and there’s been some difficulties So do you think that younger players as well should be able to handle difficult things together? Yes correct -You think that they should be more open? Yes and a lot of the players come from a background where they’ve played alone or with friends and they haven’t really gone through these things and when you add in a social aspect of the team and you get some arguments And when you want to congratulate a teammate after they’ve done something well.. That’s missing.. and.. It’s a shame really because that’s based a lot on how you’ve grown as a person So but there could be a chance of one day getting a good Finnish Dota team besides the CS teams? Maybe But the possibility’s there when it comes players -Never say never -There is hope You need to become the coach even though you said you wouldn’t I might have some other things to do You’ll just walk away? No I wouldn’t do that Well Do you still have something after that? I can’t really think of anything anymore. I don’t want to throw you under the buss again trying to recruit a new coach for the Finnish Dota scene Okay well Do you want to send any wishes? Any last words? Last words? What does that mean? Now’s the moment when Igor comes and walks in Oh so that’s why I’m here. -Regarding the podcast so any closing words at the end of this podcast. Do you have anything.. Well thank you for watching and super cool to still see people still support Dota I think that’s very interesting and of course supporting us and OG and me It means so much to me that people follow and that makes this all possible and you can never say that enough and I feel like I never say that enough and I really get the chance since I’m not very active in social media but that’s something I always have to get out and thank you very much for watching Amazing. All the wishes are in and The eighth episode was there Thank you Jesse a thousand times Thank you Timo -Thank you Jussi And we’ll be back next month with a new guest so See you then Bye bye Thank you to our sponsors Gigantti and Free Laskutus! Subtitles by: MiiKo

Comments (4)

  1. Paras video vaikka en oo vielä ees kahtonu!

  2. Oh my Gosh! It's the Saviour of OG!!! <3

  3. Millon lisää ENCEN pelejä

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