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Is The Genre In Trouble? MMORPG 2019

Is The Genre In Trouble? MMORPG 2019


Being a content creator for mmorpgs, I see
this comment and this concept constantly. People leave that comment on at least one
of my videos every few days, mmorpgs are dead, this game proves mmorpgs are dead, mmorpgs
died years ago, etc etc. Whatever variation it is, it’s the same messaage,
that in 2019, the mmorpg genre is dead. The issue I take with this statement is what
does dead mean in this context? Do you mean population is lower than before? Do you mean there’s less games? Less companies investing money into the genre? Less innovation? Since this is about a pretty general concept
let’s just cover them all, so today we’re going to be going over is the mmorpg dead
in my opinion. I’d love to hear your opinion in the comment
section, let me know if this makes sense, is there and aspect of the genre that is dead
from your perspective? So if we’re assuming mmorpgs are dead due
to population, let’s examine that statement. When was the mmorpg genre alive if that’s
the case? Surely it would have to be when world of warcraft
had like 13 million subscribers right? Because then there were a bunch of other small
games and a few medium or big ones, so surely then there must have been more mmorpg players? I think two issues with this is assuming wow
players counted as mmorpg genre players and not treating world of warcraft for exactly
what it was and still is to a lesser extent, an abberation. A game that is a genre all unto itself, it
trancended the genre and exists in a bubble of its own creation. Wow players typically aren’t mmorpg players
or even gamers, they’re wow players. When wow had 13 million subscribers, a good
chunk of those people it was their first ever game, they played wow and left wow all the
while probably having no idea what genre it even was or that other similar games existed. They wasn’t mmorpg genre players, they were
world of warcraft players. But even still, even if you count the world
of warcraft players in this number….Back then there wasn’t a single console mmorpg,
mmorpgs hadn’t taken off at all in some countries like they have now and there wasn’t anywhere
near as many games, we have more top level games now fighting for a top spot than ever
before and way more medium tier games or fringe games that are sometimes considered part of
the genre and massively popular and other times not counted depending on who you speak
to. The really easy way to dismiss this point
entirely is just to say that mobile games exist now. Which if you’re unaware have absolute millions
of players across all the games and are massively popular all over Asia. It just can’t be true that player count wise
the genre is dead either, in fact I’d say it’s vastly higher than ever before when you
combine all the regions and devices people can and do play mmorpgs on now days. So that’s my take on the population aspect. Next up the aspect of companies investing
into the space, amount of companies making games, games releasing…Again this isn’t
true I think, mmorpgs don’t shut down that often when you think about it. So most of the games that released over the
last 10 years are still operating in some capacity, so it’s impossible to have less
games, which in turn is more companies in the space as each new one enters. Then consider also that we’ve had crowdfunding
take off so we have a ton of brand new studios in the space, south korea has absolutely pumped
games out for the past 6 or so years and we have studios like amazon entering the space. It’s just absolutely factually incorrect that
this aspect of the mmorpg genre is dead. Think about these past 3 months at the end
of 2019, or even just November and December so far…We’ve had probably 10 or more brand
new mmorpgs announced or revealing, some of which are releasing in 2020. Think of how many new mmorpgs are releasing
in 2020 and how you only really hear of a semi relevant mmorpg closing a handful of
times every year because they can operate on almost zero money in maintenance mode while
usually having dedicated small player bases who pay the server bills. Also how many companies can you name that
have been mmorpg companies that have just flat out gotten out of the genre and aren’t
operating or developing mmorpgs anymore? I can’t think of any off the top of my head
and even if there’s a couple that we could figure out using the mind of the mob between
us, that’s not enough to ever outweight the amount of companies that are moving into out
space as newcomers. And the last one of course would be the creativity
and innovation, saying the genre is dead due to this reason is about the only one I can
understand. I agree to an extent. I do however think that we are seeing the
start of the turn around. With a lot of these crowdfunded games coming
out in the next year or two, you know all the big ones. I don’t expect many of them will turn out
to be a main stay game but I do think they’ll have features that will shape the next generation
of mmorpgs and make the space much better aswell as the tech is getting much closer
to what it needs to be with cloud services becoming much better and networking improvements. With cloud networking and internet getting
better around the world, game development reaching new levels of innovation in just
what is possible and what will be possible over the next few years…The possibilities
for what we can do is only getting better. The problem is of course, mmorpgs take so
many years to create because of all the persistence and infrastructure you have to develop. So the likelihood that these companies want
to risk money by making a risky game, that’s where your problems lie. All things told though you don’t see a lot
of innovation in any genre really, if you look over the years in mainstream gaming there
hasn’t been a lot of big shake ups up until recently and you can attribute a lot of that
down to indie gaming and crowdfunding also…I think no one can argue that kickstarter, crowdfunding,
steam early access, patreon, things like this have changed the scape of gaming forever and
it allows new, innovative ideas to enter the mainstream because they’re not scared to make
their game different as they don’t have the same issues as big developers and their publishing
overlords. So it’s always going to be a slow burn in
this genre, until somehow they manage to start making these games in much, much less time,
like 5 years is a pretty typical wait time for an mmorpg, generally the accepted number. That means for every game that comes out,
the game that copies their good qualities is 5 years later. The genre isn’t ever going to innovate quickly
when the development cycle is 5 years, does this mean the genre is dead? Not at all, this is just how the genre moves
due to how slow it is. It’s unfortunate but you can look at innovation
in any field for proof of this concept, innovation generally comes from other people stealing
each other’s work and just improving it incrementally until you get what the new big thing is. Now do I think there is anything that’s dead
about the mmorpg genre? Yeah I think the actual term mmorpg is pretty
much dead. Not going to be as crazy of a take or unpopular
opinion as it would have been a few years ago I think. I think there’s been a dilution of the genre
defining tag massively multiplayer online role playing game over the years. I see mmorpg news sites covering games that
don’t even remotely look like an mmorpg and have even in some cases flat out said, it’s
not an mmorpg. We’re dragging in arpgs, 4 player co op games,
lobby based games with a lobby with 10 people visible at a time into the genre and I don’t
get why. This has only really proper become a big thing
in the last few years I think and now it’s so hard to tell if a game is even going to
be that mmorpg that most of us think of when we see it announced because the developers
are even doing it to us. And the thing is guys, I’m not even hating
on any one doing this because I do it too, I’m as guilty as everyone else, I see everyone
else call it an mmorpg so I cover it for content and then say yeah it’s not an mmorpg. I still covered it on an mmorpg channel which
is as bad as anyone else. I know for a fact that most of you watching
this are generally adults. Like youtube shows me general analytics of
age demographics and I know , being an mmorpg channel, most of my audience is 25-34 year
olds. And 99.1% of my audience is over the age of
18. So I know that a good chunk of you guys hearing
me right now are of the age that you remember how mmorpgs was 10 years ago and at no point
did I have to second guess myself when hearing an announcement if the game was going to be
an mmorpg or not despite it saying so in big bold letters all over the website. This is not some old man gatekeeping rant
either, I just think as times change and everything gets faster, more instant dopamine hits, more
gotta go fast mechanics, having those games be called an mmorpg is diluting the defining
tag of what the genre is…This of course happens in everything and things change and
I couldn’t even tell you how anything about this could improve because it’s not like we
have a governing body we can put in a request to and have them change the requirements for
what is an mmorpg. It’s just something we have to accept but
I think as a concept that’s about the only thing I can say is dead about this genre. I don’t even trust now days that a developer
even knows what an mmorpg is, which is a pretty unique situation to be in, especially when
we combine that with my saying the genre is growing and these new companies are coming
in for the first time and investing money. What games are they looking at and how will
they further then dilute the definition? Maybe this could be a point that someone could
say oh mmorpgs are dead because the genre definition is meaningless now….I’d sort
of agree with that to an extent. I don’t think this makes mmorpgs any less
popular though, in fact it proves they’re more popular than ever, when you have people
thinking path of exile, phantasy star online 2, destiny 2 and things of that nature are
mmorpgs then you’re just adding numbers on top of an already growing genre. I think it’s really easy to just be bored
as a veteran of mmorpgs because it’s almost as if the genre is stuck in tar, it moves
in slow motion. I think one of the things people least think
about is how different of a person you even are 5 years down the line and what you think
you’ll enjoy when you hear about it versus what you do enjoy 5 years down the line when
you finally get to play it are two totally different things. Everytime a new mmorpg comes out and you play
it, your expectations move… The games are copying each other but they’re
5 years late to the party and probably dated when they launch. The games that are innovating are going to
launch and then whoever copies them and innovates a little will be 5 years late. It’s just a constant cycle of massive chunks
of time. Mechanics degrade and ideas become stale after
you play them out in your head and in different games one at a time for multiple years waiting
on that perfect game you heard about. I think that’s why there’s so many failed
mmorpgs and I think that’s a big reason mmorpg fatigue and boredom is a real thing. A lot of people newer to the genre do not
have these issues and they have no problem calling these games that to veterans aren’t
remotely mmorpgs to be them. I honestly think we as the veterans of the
genre are the problem in this in that our expectations are in this new age of fast information,
fast wait times, lots of new things coming at us…But the mmorpg genre isn’t in that
age. It’s still in the age where between two generations
of mmorpg releases is one seventh of the average life expectancy. That’s just me though and maybe I’m overthinking
things, that’s usually the case. You guys will have to let me know if even
any of this made sense and what you feel about anything and everything mentioned in this
video. Alright hope you guys enjoyed the video, like,
comment, subscribe, play with the bell. Join me on discord to talk about anything
and everything, follow me on twitter and Special shoutout to my youtube membership
squad for the extra support, Chillie Hue, Rowan, Miss Yun, Ramms, Duo T, Jack, Joe,
Marathon5150,Marius, Oliver and our most recent addition Kush Daddy…Not at all an awkward
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Comments (47)

  1. I do consider that the population of MMOs in general is lower than it was at the beginning of 2010's, however, the genre got more specialized. People who enjoyed PvP went to MMOs that are more PvP orientated(PUBG, APEX, LOL, DOTA) I do consider those MMOs but they are instanced. People who enjoyed PvE went to Warframe, WoW, PoE, ESO and many others, basically the heavies of the industry. The genre is there but it's different. And I do agree that MMOs as a title has dissipated.

  2. Overpromise and Under Deliver, that's pretty much the motto of most recent MMOs. We have a Korean dominated market(aside from WoW), and unfortunately how Koreans play games and how the rest of the world plays games is at a major disconnect. Koreans idea of "fun" and a typical MMO gamer outside of that markets idea of fun is very different. It feels like games are being designed to be cool, flashy, twitchy, and grindy…they forget the very important central focus which should be "fun". E-Sports, streaming and content creators have had a very negative impact on the current market(No insult intended), but it does take a way a lot of the magic of playing and learning a new game.

  3. All MMORPG games are just pools to get your freaking money from micro-transactions… No "realistic grapich" = NOT CARTOON / ANIME, no game play, no balance, no nothing. Tell me what MMORPG game to play in 2019? IS there any game like Diablo 2, Archlord, Tera… Sad sad sad :(. And thank you for video!

  4. For the western market, it is in trouble because of pay2win and macrotransaction stuff. For the east, its not because macrotransaction is accepted there.

  5. "mmorpgs are dead" mostly refers to the genre being stagnant, as stagnant as a corpse. thats because WoW was the michael jordan of MMOs, if you have seen that video before.
    WoW became the standard of the genre and killed all innovation, now MMOs need to be easy and give the player something to do like dailies and chores. filled with microtransactions and the same generic roadmap of release more powercreep content, max level is 75? make it 90. oh people rushed the content and got bored? make it 99. oh people did it again? make it 119 and release gear with item Level, etc.

    making these games is a ton of investment, and the people investing don't want to lose, they would rather get their money back or make a minuscule profit than risk making something new and fresh that people dont like.

  6. Players who cheat and act like shit in games are the killer of this kind of games.

  7. I have always considered MMORPGs to be like living organisms. I can't say they are dead but it seems like they are just evolving, which is natural of course. Classic MMORPGs like UO, WoW and GW survive because they have characteristics that allow them to survive.
    Perhaps, as you mentioned in the video, what is dying is the old definition of what constitutes a MMORPG. It seems that we are reaching a point in online gaming in which "tagging" games with certain genres is no longer functional: "X game is not a MMORPG, nor an Action Game, nor a Fighting Game, X game is just that, X game." It's sort of similar to what you said about WoW players. They aren't playing a MMORPG, they are playing WoW. Well, I think that's the point we are reaching now with each game trying to redefine the genre. And to be honest, that's wonderful. I no longer want to go back to the classic MMORPG days filled with generic Korean MMORPGs , imitating the same formulas and concepts.

  8. This video is just you gatekeeping. WoW is an MMORPG. It's a massive world with roleplay elements. It's the very definition of a MMORPG.

  9. steam EarlyAccess is a disaster. look at all the EarlyAccess games on steam, the vast majority of them have negative and mixed ratings because the people who work on Crowdfunded money want to release PreAlphas of games AS full games that they'll update on.

    what earlyaccess did is enable lazy people to pretend they're developers to get a ton of clout and money for doing very little work and before finishing their product. people shouldn't get clout before the product is actually finished. because once they have the clout and the money they just quit and don't finish the job, who cares since they already got paid preemptively.

    crowdfunding is cancer honestly.

  10. The game industry dropping mmorpg and going mmo..I love mmorpg and sadly its dying slowly. Like the Amazon Lord of the rings will be mmo.. 🙁

  11. Mmos aren't dead thanks to the massive successes of eso, gw2, WoW, and ffxiv. The genre could live on forever thanks to those games. But besides those games, mmorpgs are as good as dead and it's entirely their fault. Why make an amazing mmo then fuck it up with pay2win and bad updates? Why make an amazing game then take 2+ years to bring it to the western market? Why make mmos with outdated graphics with slow, boring combat? That's their fault. They wont innovate and bring something that the consumer wants so it dies.

  12. There is just soo many games atm that divides population that mmos feel fairly empty, also most people camping at the endgame makin new player comming to the game feel like its dead. And having to start investing time in another mmo from start feels like playing single player game, unless its a new mmo that just came out and everyone starting from 0. Also whenever new update coms out it feels like all the time u invested was pointles (in most games) because new continent is far superrior to old one. Also games that have some sort of achievement system kinda keeps ya from trying something new which could potentialy be more interesting. Also some games dont produce enouigh continent to keep players there.

    Like i bought a pack for astellia close beta then it enter open beta population was crazy high u go anywhere and u meet some players that ended then i took a month break and saw i was playoing single player game… Same with maplestory2 then i started everything groupfinder instantly made groups all the maps in most channels were crowded, now its like ghost towns with bots selling gold.
    There is some good games that make ya feel from start that u playing an mmo like guild wars2 its now that high on population comparing with biggest titles but u experiance teamplay since u create new a character basicly u end up fightin a little miniboss with some players always with u in a fight feels like a mini introdutionary dungeon. ESO since everything in the game can be used for specific set or something people tend to do low and new continent that makes it feels like massively multiplayer online game rather than a just sigle player till u hit the end to play mmo. Tried archeage got to hiram grind but till i got there i didnt need a group.
    The MMORPG genre is alive its big there is ton of games there which divides population from mmorpg to an rpg. + Big and old titles keep players from trying something new and feel like playin solo boring game (till u get to the good part with u may or may not like)…
    nostalgia
    I think we need a game that would make players engage to each other from low lvl to end with half decent continent and gameplay and a a tansfer bonus to make em feel like worth goin from game to game (to kill the attachement to 1 game), imagine if u could transfer progress from one game to another that would make u wanna try new one could u already would have achieved something

  13. Definitely not dead. Many go the wrong way tho, like turning into a cash grab or just bad expansions. None of them live very long for me personally but, I am hard to please. I've lost all interest in the available stuff.

  14. I said 1 thing only … all the dam companys just copy and paste OSRS with better graphics the most complete MMORPG out there hangs down

  15. Don't think it's in trouble at all, unless you're in the small minority in the west, who prefer Sandbox Style Korean MMO games, in which case it is, because the western market isn't alright with the predatory practices and those sorts of MMO's are simply not sustainable in the west. There are currently more MMORPG's in development, than at any other time, and more successful ones than at any other time. But, sure, lets go with it being in trouble, because the small niche market of PvP centric grindfest sandbox MMORPG's fail in the west.

  16. I used to be a huge fan of MMORPGs. Ultima Online Eve MO etc. Sandbox style mmorpgs were my thing. However in recent years we have seen an increase in the Survival Ark style of games. They offer an MMO style experience with a more realistic set of server limitations. I remember back in my early days of playing mmos thinking wow all these people playing this game together it is incredible but the reality is you rarely come across more than 10 or 20 people in 1 place at any 1 time and so these Ark style games like Atlas with 50 people per server actually play out like a typical mmorpg just with servers separating game areas. I think the most important aspect of an MMO is persistence and an ever evolving world and economy. Games like EQ2 i feel played like a coop dungeon crawler because you rarely had any intereaction with more than 5 people at a time.

  17. I'm looking forward to pantheon. The biggest problem with mmos is they release unfinished.
    People move on and rarely come back.

  18. Going to be honest, PSO 2 is going to save the genre for me. PSO was my jam far before WoW and I can't wait to play the newest version without jailbreaking a PS Vita and downloading a translation that makes the game somewhat playable.

    I just hope I can enjoy it as much as I've wanted to play it all these years.

  19. I don't think they're dead. I just don't enjoy them in their current form, but many do and that's fine. I think crowdfunding has the potential to shake things up but maybe I'm too cynical about it. crowdfunding from what I've seen in gaming, even when they get veteran members on board generally have bad management. and I've seen a few times where the crowdfunding only goes to a certain point and then they announce that they are receiving huge funding from an actual company which completely destroys the freedom they had and is a dick slap to all their original funders

  20. Its more a meme at this point rather than a statement based in facts obviously, But i suppose the meaning behind it has been altered somewhat over the years, More so based on monetisation decisions in mind for the design of most mmo's. You hardly run into a mmorpg now a days purely constructed to be an experience from start to finish. Leveling has become nothing but time gating to actually be able to get to the end game, Instead of feeling like the time you spend going through different areas etc is a part of it. Now obviously you have the decision to make for your self in this regard as you can take a more casual approach to it, But i would say that most people end up feeling pressured into rushing anyways based on a few factors, And then obviously once you reach end game the meta type of mentality comes into play where you need to start min maxin your builds / stats etc and its all good as long as you enjoy that shit, But i do think it completely removes the freedom of playing your class how you want to and so on.

  21. Honestly if anything killed or will kill the mmorpg genre, it was WoW. But honestly those of us who started on the original mmorpgs like meridian 59, ultima online, eq or ac. We remember prepatch days. The days before companies started catering to casuals/carebears. Which lead to the peak of wow and what we have now. But also the rise and interest in the survival genre, and sandbox genre, thanks mostly to minecraft… does give me hope for future mmorpg titles to go back to the feeling, essence and expierences of the first mmorpgs.

  22. Great Insights! I essentially agree with the evolution of the term MMORPG.

  23. https://youtu.be/T9HGsPfdHdE?t=481 could you tell me name of that game?

  24. I think MMOs went through a stagnant phase but are currently on an upturn again. I think the downturn happened when every man and his dog where trying to copy WoWs success. Also Pay to Win and other shady monetization happened and turned many people off and spawned some really shallow cash grab games. Plus the genre is evolving into other related but not MMO genres. I dont think this is particularly a bad thing. So long as the industry stop with the crappy cash grabs as they are getting old .

  25. FF11 was a console MMORPG when World of Warcraft came out. It was on the PS2. I also agree that WoW players were not MMORPG players, they were Warcraft fans. My best friend played WoW for years, and he never even knew what EverQuest was.. i always made fun of him.

  26. Oh boy, i grew up with World of warcraft not only the mmorpg but everysingle game about world of warcraft. But i have to say after playing it i couldn't find anything similar. The feeling of actually being in a massive world role playing and being around other players fighting or helping each other, doing things that actually matter during a quest line or working super hard to get a Legendary item with 0 RNG involved and then showing off in other players of your faction .Those simple things and more made Wow a great game. After of course it became a grindfest i quit but i could never find anything similar and i tried everysingle one the past 7 years. Archeage, Archeage unchained ,BDO , Elder scrolls, Guild wars , Blade and soul you name it i played it . Sure i had a lot of fun with many of them but not one gave me the original MMORPG Vibe Wow had for so many years. Anyone else feeling the same ?

  27. Micro transactions kill the genre , like it or not it’s a fact
    mmorpg is a “progressive” game not a “burst” of “fun” compared to other games like “battle royal” / “fps” games
    And people are getting more “busy” compared to the old days so it’s decreasing in popularity

  28. Any Developer: turn the players into payers

    Players: waynaminute wut?

  29. yada yada ye ye mmos are dead, ye ye ill just play this game with thousands of ppl and have my fun.

  30. I can get why people say that. Most the time the game is just quest finishing running from one person to the next while fighting monsters that stand still or walk a little in a area till you hit them. MMOs have become typical and boring. I have played ff14 bdo even rune scape and wow and it all feels the same to me. Even in high levels all you do in memorize positioning to where your role suppose to stand when fighting a boss and repeat that till you get what you want. Honestly looking for a good mmo but none interest me.

  31. Apply the following statement and tell me that these games aren't niiche, half dead or beyond stagnant "the game will feature crafting, open world pvp, castle sieges,guild vs guild wars and massive pve/pvp battles!", utterly absurd

  32. at 0:52, what is that game name?

  33. MMOs have evolved (for better or worse) in the west. We're getting more and more "games as a service" and "connected worlds" and so forth. No major Western dev wants to put the resources in to compete with WOW directly. And the East (basically Korea) seems to turn out a lot of graphically impressive grindfests reliant on an abusive cash shop. But I get the feeling that the next evolution, the next innovation will come and flip the table.

  34. 9:30 onward, damn wizard.

  35. I'm so sick of companies trying to reinvent the wheel with all this flashy BS and action combat systems that dont work as flawless as a good tab target system

  36. 1: gaming has become so mainstream it's all about money so they toss p2w into the mix
    2: Lack of content
    3: play 1 you played them all
    These are my top 3 issues with mmos and the list can go one lol

  37. where is my popcorn this comment section is going to be fun

  38. i wish wow was dead

  39. I really like that you cover different areas i.e. population, genre definition, etc. There are over 80mill new internet users in SEA alone over the past 5 years (Google-Temasek report), and about 30-35% play games at least 1hr/week (albeit most of them on mobile). Work took me to rural SEA this week, and I saw numerous game centers bustling with enthusiasm – a sight you wouldn't have seen 10yrs ago. Of course the market shifts to developing regions – that's the gaming market's main battleground right now.

    Western players complain about Asian MMOs' P2W/grind, while Asian gaming forums complain about Western MMOs' clunky combat & unimaginative character design. It's a clash of taste. Main difference from WoW era is that the Asian market now has more players & equal buying power to the West.

  40. Well most (ehm pretty much all) new MMOs are simply bad. They are not good enough to even care about. Well, at least for me that is. I like the open worlds sandbox-ish kind where you have player driven economy, politics, own personal responsibility, possibly even loot. As much as possible is player driven, and at the same time the MMO part is not missing, aka I want to see battles with hundreds of people, big sieges, important parts of the world be consantly contested for resources, yet at the same time have the lower or new players still play a role in the economy with their own materials to gather that others need. And all of this must be completely seamless open-world, no instances, no lobby, no global auction houses, no global chat (say except province rulers/heroes) and completely unlimited player to player trading with 0. Quests as a whole are also not needed if your crafting system is good enough. Oh yes, and please no free global teleports or flying mounts or other BS that makes the world small and too easy to traverse.

    Last time I had this experience was in oldschool Lineage2 aka 2004-2008. Everything since then was a downgrade if not straight up disaster. We have the era of WOW clones (in my book a terrible game) fallowed by era of games that don't even try and their whole endgame is just lobby based instanced dungeoning.

    Back in like 2010-2014 I was still enthusiastic and I fallowed games like Archeage or late Black desert that seemed interesting but completely flopped or got ruined. I no longer waste time with that, I still hope something will come, but even the Amazon game got gutted before it launched. For who? Who is the audience? Not me apparently. If its not me fuck your game. Few of those indie games have good ideas but the production quality is often too bad and ideas alone don't make a good game. The last living good mmo is perhaps EVE online but thats too much of a "spreadsheets online" it lacks the RPG elements.

    Look like Iv been dumped by the industry, my second most favorite genre was RTS and that is also dead. The thing is RTS can live on community supported older games you don't need masses to make them work and have fun. But MMORPG? Less than around 2000 online and active at the same time on the server at that scale I imagine and its not going to work. Everyone traded good mmos for those with easy and confidence, and so did the companies making them, they make them for easy money no risks. Boom cashgrab, open shops, burn it to the ground and make a new game. If it still by some miracle lves years later pretend you care and pretend you are fixing it, maybe relaunch for one last quick buck? Yeah, thats the whole market and that I don't even talk about the pile of worms that are mobile MMOS and look how much money they make.

    The conclusion is easy, just like RTS players of the past, we are not the audience anymore, there are other audiences that are much bigger and much dumber and much easier to exploit so they offer the companies many times more money, so the companies go there. Shame is that are none, literary none that can see that there is a market for us and we are loyal customers and at least one game focused on our audience would be successful, but nope, no games like that around.

  41. There are literally millions of mmo players worldwide, spread across multiple titles and platforms. Video games are a business and these companies use analysts to search for profitable markets. Conglomerates such as amazon game studios don’t just create MMO’s on a whim and hope for a return on their investments. These people crying about a dead genre are nothing more than alarmists.. sometimes it’s not worth it to entertain such claims as it gives them validity. This is the same reason the scientific community does not argue with “flat earthers”.

  42. what is dead is our trust. We saw too many fails we were played too often. What wow classic showed us is that many players actually yearn for a mmorpg and didn't totally forget what it is, but when it comes to the big picture, it's a niche game nowadays, nor wow retail players, nor chineses or any casual gamers are interested in it. Even if compared to 20 years ago the number of people playing video games is insane, the income companies wish to make is also insane. The industry is too big for old mmorpg, and for rpgs too if you ask me. All golden ages have a time limit, it's just hard to swallow.

  43. I agree with most of what you have said and am glad you brought it up. I been a MMO guy since Star Wars Galaxy and been invested ever since. I hear this type of thing a lot. It seems like players from back then don’t want to admit that they have changed at all. For me, having played so many, I find the dumbing down is what gets to me and my buddies. Each game use to start out hard core and then over time they make them easier and less depth. That was before cash shops, pay to win and all that.

    Archeage unchained started to look good then people reached end game in 2 day. Wtf. How can a game keep players for years like that. I really believe the player base is as guilty as the designers for ruining games.

  44. There's 2 reasons people should take into consideration..
    1.. Asian companies, just like most copy everything faster and more stupid every day. In other words, they bring out the weirdest games that make no sense, people play it and are like "Omg is this what MMORPG's are about?! WoW is much better!". No offense to WoW players. As an old WoW player, and an occasual World-Chat WoW troll (Think of stuff like "Omg WoW has a much better warehouse system!" spammer that infurious people).

    Ontop of that. The BIGGEST… by FAR!! Biggest!!!! Aspect that lower the player count are the Bot prevention systems. I used to bot league of legends. I myself ran 60 acocunts at once. Some people I worked with ran 2000 accounts at once. Count that up to the monthly 'unique' logins and voila. INSANE NUMBERS YO! Bots are being exterminated allover by anti-hacking software and that literally kills the population about a lot. I remember seeing entire bot trains in Lineage2 in the past. I had like 70 of those myself as friends that gave me buffs in every dungeon room. Things like that do a lot to the 'unique numbers'

  45. VR might be able to save it.
    Nostos came out and even with it's bugs and problems is still doing okay. More titles are on the way.

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